[PapaBear]

Looking forward to the pix Beth. Your observations and Brutuscz' are helping to clear things up for me about mine. I hadn't really considered Sumi to be in the picture for an Ochiba but it seems to be there lurking in the gene pool like a quiet chameleon.
Sangreal's Ginrin is much like mine. No sumi issues with it at all only mine has less leaf development at this time. The patterns are emerging slowly from the top down, which is the opposite of how the normal scaled ones developed, from the belly upward.
BTW Brutuscz. Your chagoi and mine seem to be on the same page. The ones I have all blend in well with the carpet algae even though they were more tea colored indoors. They seem to color shift to blend in to the background very quickly.