| Hi Steve,
Sorry for the delay. I usually just drop by Koi-Bito when Jim North points to something interesting here. First, you need to understand that the advice people have given you here is spot on.. and they are only trying to help you. No one else can fix the problem but you and you are the eyes and hands of the people who want to help. So, while we appreciate your frustration, consider that of the people who are trying to help as well.
OK.. here is the situation with just facts and no fantasy...
1. I asked a number of questions in my initial post and some have been answered, most not... the really important question was about the "pH buffer" product you used. We need this information. It is critical to finding the proximate cause of the problem.
2. This is going to be a blunt statement... your fish are in serious trouble and you stand to lose some of them. And the reason is quite clear (to me, at least): anytime we are dealing with such significant gill damage, we have to first diagnose what caused it and second treat both the cause and then the disease. And in most cases, these treatments are contraindicated as treating parasites with PP or formalin with open wound gill damage will just increase the damage to the wounds. See my point? This is why we don't want to guess what the cause is nor do we want to shotgun the treatment because I will guarantee that if we do, we will kill more fish. So we need to be exact in our treatment protocol. And frankly, Steve... this is one of the toughest types of cases to fix.
3. You have to examine the fish in the pond. We have to know what we are dealing with. Everyone one of us has had to catch fish before we so know what you are up against. It needs be done with as little stress as possible because you are correct, these are already weakened fish and will not take much more. I like the seine idea and regular old pond netting will work well.
4. Treatment of impacted gills requires that the fish be placed in a quarantine/hospital tank. The sheer number of pathogens naturally occuring in the pond and the effectiveness of the medications we need to treat the disease (Chloramine-T/BDGX) dictate the use of a hospital tank. Remember, I never said this was going to be easy. Plus, the effectiveness of Chloramine-T is also reduced significantly by organics in the water. And this is something we can control better in a hospital tank instead of our pond.
5. There is no magic cure or one product that is going to solve this.. we have multiple things to address and in more or less this order:
- understanding the extent of the problem...condition of the other fish
- identifying the parasite or other proximate cause of the problem so we can plan a treatment regimen. The damage to the gills becomes the paramount consideration in deciding which med to use here. And this won't be easy.
- treating the bacterial infection with the right protocol targeted at our best guess of the bacteria typically found in ponds. We know this to be aeromonas and flexobacter columnaris but it really does not matter which one is the target bacteria, because we can treat for one and get the other with the same med.
- managing the hospital tank water and conditions to remove stress.
For this, you will need one or more hospital tanks depending on the number and size of fish affected. Remember that changing their environment and placing them in a restricted areas such as a hospital tank will be stressful to them so we need to factor that in as well. The hospital tanks should be fresh water, treated for chlorine if applicable, and salted to .3% (three pounds of salt per 100 gallons of water.. table salt will work just fine). You will need a filter/pump system and good air stones. Have plenty of Amquel or Prime on hand to manage the ammonia. Also, the water will need to be held to as close to 78 deg F as you can get it. Water parameters such as KH levels need to be held firm. Once we have the system running, then we address the parasite problem, even if it is to just exclude them as the problem. After that, we work on healing the gills with the Chloramine-T.
The biggest unknown at this point is what chem may be required to kill of the parasites. At a minimum I would have Prazi and ProForm C on hand. Yeah, I know I told you ProForm C may be more harm than good but it also may be our only hope depending on the bug we are dealing with.
And finally, accept that fact that we are going into triage here and it may come down to those we can save and thoe we cannot.
I do apologize if this sounds terse, but this is serious business and sometimes we just need to go to the bottom line and start there.
Oh.. regarding the current behavior of your fish... they are piping and flashing at dusk (or at least in the later afternoon shade) because the photosynthesis process is starting to produce CO2 and given that these fish are already stressed and that possibly their gills are compromised, the most O2 rich water is at the surface and the increased acidic nature of the water from CO2 is itching them. During the daylight hours, CO2 is removed from the water and O2 produced.. this allows them to relax on the bottom. It is critical to maintain a solid KH level (100-120) to help neutralize the CO2. Baking soda works wonders here.
Questions??
REC |