[Sangreaal]

Out of the line up of ochiba that you posted, I really like your "goshiki" the best. Still, my favorite is the gold, brown or bronze/green or red on the soragoi blue ground with indigo netting.

Most of the ochiba I've seen out there are, well...poo poo. Very few really great specimens (that I've been able to find) of what I think Ochiba Shigure embodies--autumn leaves floating on water. Here are some of the best examples I could find (oddly slanted towards my initial choice of ochibas--imagine that. *LOL*)

Sakazume GR Ochiba Shigure (currently at keirin koi)


My Jumanji, lineage unknown:


Ogata Ochiba Shigure
I'm crediting the last two of these ochiba to Ogata only from memory--they could be from someone else, but unfortunately I didn't label them as I collected them back then like I do now. (If anyone recognizes them and can for sure name the breeder, please do)

Autumn, lineage unknown:


Although the ginrins are nice enough (and there was a beauty posted here on another thread some months ago), nothing seems to compare to the non-ginrin version with the blue soragoi netting ground to represent "Autumn Leaves" to me. (Maurice has a gorgeous one with rust colored "leaves" and really fine reticulation)

30 years of breeding still puts this variety in the early development stage, it would seem. The proflagration of the uglies attests to that. I love the history I'm learning from you on how ochiba originated! Fascinating stuff! But I worry that the variety is getting a little too diverse too soon--it should not be able to be confused with any other variety, though the experimental crosses will spawn all kinds of variation.

What, in your opinion, was used to create the blue netting/gold patterned type as illustrated in the Ogata photos? Soragoi for sure, but would a blue soragoi/gold chagoi cross do that? The kohaku patterning would almost seem impossible in that cross.

I really like that Tanaka Ochiba--though like someone at another parish said, looks like leaves on the bottom of the pond instead of floating on water. Nonetheless, a beatiful rendition...

Marie