[koicluboftheair]

Quote: Originally Posted by schildkoi John, Niether party is wrong. Its apples and oranges. there were hobbyists organizations in Japan dating back prior to the ZNA organizing under its curent name in about 1968. Taba could very well mean that they are the oldest , still in existanace under their same name? And reading Tabe, it was formed primarily by Japanese in the Hawaiian Islands and would still add credance to Ron's point that the hobby is a Japanese hobby. I don't see a who's right nor who's wrong answer but that they are both correct? Steve

I'm not so sure as, ",...it is a Japanese hobby to begin with;they invented it, set the rules and standards for it,..." according to Ron clearly implies Japan not Japanese Americans in Hawaii. Just as the Hawaiian Club has the distinction of being the oldest club it would seem then that they set the rules and standards. Interestingly, this all came about after Douglas Macarthur oversaw the occupation of Japan and establishment of a more democratic system from 1945-51. Who established the rules first set the standard. Whether or not the roots of koi-club-kichi is to be properly documented as in Hawaii or some pre-WWII Japanese imperial tradition is an important question to answer for a variety of reasons.