[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by koiczar rubi04 The advice you were given is typical of "fish stores" and landscapers. It's based on a specific type of pond which most all serious koi keepers have defined as "a toilet bowl"!! Russ Peters is a General Contractor who has built some really nice ponds. My partner and I also build ponds. This is not an advertisement but just a bit of sound advice from someone who does this work professionally. YOU MUST HAVE AT LEAST ONE BOTTOM DRAIN. Simply adding a submersible pump inside a skimmer does not a filter make. I have retrofitted at least 20 of these type ponds. Most after only the first year or two of operation when the customer realizes they got ripped off in the first place. Now they have to spend more than the original investment to rip out the original pond in the most extreme cases and install a "proper" koi pond with the right plumbing to do the job. Don't be too hasty, rushing into the project without some sound advice. You'll get lots of it here if you want it. It may be a little overwhelming at first but there are some really great folks here who can help you to do it right the FIRST TIME! One other noteworthy suggestion, stay away from building a pond with "ledges for plants". It simply makes your pond become a smorgasbord (sp) for predators. The walls should be vertical and the pond is recommended to be a minimum of 3-4' but 4'-5' is even better. Good Luck. Remember, we're hear to help if you need it. Mike

Really good advice Mike, and everyone!

I have no bottom drain in the experimental pond and 1ft ledges around the sides, and both scenarios are a real bummer. I don't have a skimmer, either. It makes it a real job to keep the horizontal surfaces clean of crap--I vacuum the pond a minimum of twice a week and skim by hand every day, sometimes several times a day depending on season. The ledges are the hardest to clean and the errant pond digger that talked me into the feature because he didn't want to excavate that last 1ftx3ft around the sides has heard that from me for the last year on an almost daily basis. *LOL* It's getting dug out this year come hell or high water, and bottom drains and a skimmer are on the queue this time around as I make this pond into a more permanent one.

So from empirical anecdotal experience I say--listen to the experts here. Put a bottom drain. Hell, put two. More has got to be better! Get the biggest skimmer you can afford, a filtration system that'll handle twice the size you think you need or more, and no ledges. You'll be so glad you did, and your fish will thank you.

Marie