bakki towers

[shiromujigirl]

I like your idea Mike but it would not tell me what I want to know, that is, are heterotrophs dominant. Because all the filters would be running into the same pond, one could not tell which media was having the most effect on the pond. And you have to not just look at a meter but at your fish and pond.

It is not that difficult to set up identical systems using different media. And the tests should be run outside as that is where most people's ponds are located. Also, different daily dilution factors could be tested on the individual medias.

[James P]

Craig, I'm glad you were able to find/join/register and repond to my post all in one day!
I am impressed that you are able to put on 25 cm a year on your koi! What lineage are you keeping? And how manying in your 5000 pond ?
Now how much water are you changing a week or running in a day? What do you do about antigrowth and sexual hormones in the water?
Are you keeping all female fish?

I'm confused about this as Maeda does do open systems? And he does have slime and string algae growing in his.

So here's the last question- can I see a picture of this pond?

That's in advance for your answers! JR

[Mike Snaden]

Hi JR,

Craig is indeed "Craig Attwood". His showers are pictured on my website. Koi are of mixed sexes.

Moving back to the 'Open' vs 'Closed' topic... one thing I asked about was that you said that Colin Hughes pond with 37% changes per week, is an 'open' system, and your pond with 40 to 45% per week is a closed system. The point I was making was that your pond is more 'open' than Colin's.

I appreciate your comments about water changes and TDS levels, which are very logical. But, one point I tried to make before, is that Colin's pond running submerged filters, was having exactly the same water changes as it is now. When he had submerged filters, he was still trickling water in daily at the same rate. But, at that time, he could never maintain a KH level in the pond, and frequently needed to add Bicarb. Now, with no addition of Bicarb since about October, his KH is still sitting at 1.5dh, which is higher than ever, and his TDS which used to run at about 100 to 110ppm, is now consistently below 80ppm. My conclusion from this, is that with his submerged filters, dirt was being trapped in the filters, which was then decaying, and turning the water acidic. Now that the dirt isn't building up, the system is in fact cleaner, and hence, the KH has picked up. I realise your concerns, and doubts. I had exactly the same doubts when the first system was put into action over here, but my own theories have been slowly changed by these systems. I know it makes little sense, but you really have to try it to believe it. The proof of the pudding will be in growing Koi in this Country to 80cm+ before they hit 6 years old. But, more to the point, the condition of the Hi and Skin will prove even more interesting.
SMG made a good point... running showers with different medias on the same pond would be inconclusive. When you turn a pond over at above 100% per hour, it is hard to find water parameter differences between water coming back from the filters, and the pond water, let alone between different filters!

Goodnight for now...

Mike.

[James P]

Hi Mike, I find I'm getting a little ( just a little ) frustrated because you are not listening to my words- I have said on more than one occasion that TTs and wet/dry systems improve oxygen saturation levels and drive off gases ( carbon dioxide and nitrogen- in many forms). This puts all ponds in a better state than they were without this form of degassing. I have no idea if Colin had carbon dioxide problems driving down his pH for instance? And as you know I have been running TTs for a dozen years know so I'm very familiar with the benefits to a koi's metabolic system including the area of growth.
Not everyone needs to understand why something works. Until they need to understand why something is no longer working! There is a science here but I seriously doubt it is in the media. I went to your website for the first time today. Very nice by the way. In the intro you tell of the spring famous for special pitted rocks and their purification of the surrounding water. I assure you there is no spring in Japan that deals with the bioactivity levels associated with a koi pond! And the surface that bacteria species settle on only needs to be conditioned with an organic substrate. The bacteria comes and multiplies at that point only based on nutrient delivery and oxygen or lack there of. In other words, bacteria has no idea what it is growing on and will grow on anything as long as nutrient is delivered across that surface! From that point on there only needs to be adequate surface for the population to grow to the level of ammonia or other nutrient being produced. Any space beyond that equilibrium is irrelevant. Further, once a biofilm sets up it can not be removed. That also means the surface of the substrate it sets up on is completely coated! This is the battle that is fought by Industry and the medical profession on a daily basis.
Beyond degassing a Bakki wet/dry does have the advantage of isolating zones between high levels of high levels of aerobic activity as all wet/drys do. Meaning toxic gases and anerobic bacteria count can't get going or migrate to the next zone. This is an interesting and plausable explanation for aerobic hetertrophic activity and containment issues.
The testimonials of your customers do not fall on deaf ears and are of great interest. I read them and store them just as I did when the answer unit came out or the BB came out. In a year we will have many through the winter and many more experiences to draw on. Until then I wish you all the best of luck. JR

[jacovors]

This is by far the best thread I have ever followed on any BB.
Great info and very well argued by all involved. :!: :!: :!: :!:

[Mike Snaden]

Hi Jaco,

Glad you find this thread of interest. At one point, it was becoming somewhat frustrating, but since then, it has moved on leaps and bounds, and become a lot more interesting!

And Good morning to you JR,

Oxy levels... Colin's pond has two aerated bottom drains, and used to have air in the filters. Oxygen levels were always at saturation point. But, I appreciate that a tower will degass CO2 very easily. Colin's problem before though, was that waste used to build up in his filters, and also below the media in his filters, where he couldn't see it. Every couple of months or so, Colin would have to pull out his filter media, and wash the filter bays out beneath it. After doing this, the pond would be able to run a stable pH for a while, until it needed doing again. No amount of fresh water seemed to counteract this occurance, only the cleaning worked.

I don't want to get into an 'FIR' science arguement, as I don't have scientific evidence to back up my words. But, the point with the spring water was not bacteria, but 'FIR' (rays) making the water delicious and smooth.

Did you try the sake/whisky/beer test whilst you were at Momotaro? If not, you should have! Basically, Mr Maeda has some ceramic sake cups, that are made from the same material as Bacteria House. These are glazed, and completely non-porous, and have no biofilm on them. I have a set of these pots here, and also Carl Forss has a set over in your side of the great pond. Well, Mr Maeda would pour Sake or whisky into one of these cups/pots, and some into a normal sake cup, and then ask you to taste it. The sake in the 'Bacteria House' pot tasted completely different... it completely lost it's bite, and the afterburn. With beer, it made it flat within seconds, and destroyed the flavour... it tasted flat and horrible.
Next test, a piece of Bacteria House in a vase with flowers... now this one was spooky... After getting back from Japan (and on Mr Maeda's advice), my Wife put fresh cut flowers into two vases. One vase had a single piece of Bacteria House in the bottom, and one didn't. Mr Maeda told me that the ones with the Bacteria House in, would last longer. Well, this was true... but the weird thing, that my Wife said she had never experienced before, was that the stems of the flowers with Bacteria House, literally rotted away to a slimy stringy mess in about two weeks, even though the flowers were still alive. My Wife threw them away at this point because they started to smell like sewage! The flowers in the other vase lasted about a week before dying.
Mr Meaeda says this is the effect of the Far-Inrared. I can't back that up, but something is happeneing here.

Mike.

[Maurice]

Mike, I'm confused by your statement 'These are glazed, and completely non-porous'. Do you mean they are glazed on the inside, yet still have a changing effect on the drink within?
Spooky if so!
Maurice.

[Mike Snaden]

Yep Maurice, you've got it! Come over and take the 'Pepsi challenge' sometime! If you hate whisky, you may actually decide that you like it from the spooky cup. If you like beer however, it may put you off for life! ;-)

Mike.

[kiky]

Hello Mike Snaden,
I am kiky, a novice in koi. But this discussion is really, really interesting.
Now I have just completed construction of my koi pond: 4m wide, 7m long and 2.5 m deep at the side which gradually increases to 2.75m at centre. I have 2 bottom drains feeding 4 vortexes each. I plan to put in kaldnes as the filter media.
My question is: if I put BH submerged in one vortex, will the BH as effective as in a bakki shower system?
Thanks in advance.

[Mike Snaden]

Hi Kiky,

Even submerged, you will be very surprised at the difference the media will make in your pond. The Koi will become more active, and feed more aggresively, and the water will improve greatly. The trick is, to put heavy aeration beneath the media to stop settlement where it can't be seen, and to keep the media clean. Also, do like the Japanese, and put the UV (if you have one) over your settlement chamber. I know that some westerners disagree with this because of lack of intensity, but contact time more than makes up for it. Momotaro say that by doing it in this way, the pond can become more abundant in healthy bacteria, and the bacteria is killed where it breeds most... in the waste at the bottom of the chamber. As it goes water born, it will get killed off as it passes the UV, but before it gets into the bio-chambers.

Mike.

I think that Mike Cheung is the guy that sells it in Indonesia, do you know him? If not, contact Momotaro.