vortex size - Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine

simon · 10-14-2004

in brief will a 51ins height and 36ins width vortex, fed from two aerated bottom drains give me good settlement before the sequence 1/4 plus pumps to the bacci shower. If not , what is the minimum size of a vortex to work. Thankyou.

Andrew · 10-14-2004

Simon,

The size sounds fine, just about the norm, obvioulsy position in plan and elevation (level) of your input/s and out take will have a bearing.

ivar · 10-14-2004

[quote=Andrew]Simon,

The size sounds fine, just about the norm, obvioulsy position in plan and elevation (level) of your input/s and out take will have a bearing.[/QUOTE

Simon,

Why do you don't go for a sieve like a bowd sieve. Small space and a big dirt collector.

http://www.click2roark.com/cgi-win/w...20040812191120
see the link for picture's

ivar

markgardner · 10-14-2004

Simon

Can you provide more details of complete set up you propose?

Mark

Maurice · 10-14-2004

It's not big enough. 2,000 gallons an hour is pushing it for 36" diameter. With a 1/4 plus you need to be looking at 48" or bigger.

Just my view if you want good settlement.

Maurice.

simon · 10-14-2004

the pond plan is 4000 gallons, two aerated bottom drains feeding 51ins height and 36ins width paragon plastics vortex with twin 4in or 3in inlet havent decided yet. I cant put a sieve on the pond as I am designing this pond for a friend and budget he has wont stretch for that. This is the first time I be installing a bacci shower, hence the reason for this post. Then the sequence 1/4 plus pump will feed the bacci shower. Returning by a weir along side a tpr from the skimmer, turning over roughly 5200 gallons an hour with both pumps.A 4kw heater, 55w tmc uv and 2 airtech 40 complete the pond set up. Thanks for the replys so far but now have conflicting advice, I know bigger is best, but in this case space is really restricted. What size vortexs are you guys using out there with bacci showers.

markgardner · 10-14-2004

Simon

Does the design have one or 2 bakki showers? I'm guessing 2 or a double sized unit?

I would look at having some solids removal on each bottom drain independently.

Have a look at what Maurice has done with static kaldnes in 2ft vortexes at http://www.koi-uk.co.uk/mechanical_f...capable_of.htm . You could have one of these units on each drain line and then pump to the showers.

I presently run a 2ft 'vortex' with a vertical sheet of fine matala matting to stop solids prior to 2ft chamber of submerged BHM and a 3tier bakki shower.

This gives excellent quality water and simple maintenance.

Mark

simon · 10-14-2004

Mark
I thought the bacci shower( One unit, 4 trays with 60 kilo of bhm) would handle 4000gallons. Again space issue, we only wanted to use one vortex, from both drains.I think the cut matala is a good way of improving settlement. All I want to do is to stop the wirlpool effect in the vortex, if it happens because of the flow rate and keep the settlement to the floor of the vortex and not in continuous suspension. Just a thought has anyone tried using hydrocleans before the shower unit.

markgardner · 10-14-2004

Simon

I think that would be pushing it to be honest, with settlement you'd be looking at 3000 max i would think.

Also, if I understand correctly, only half the turnover is going over the shower, the other pump is just running the skimmer so not really turnover, just water movement.

To be perfectly honest I think the design is incorrect and needs to be reviewed.

Mark

dick benbow · 10-14-2004

Was surprised that no one commented about the two bottom drains into one
line and then both into the settling chamber.

judging from the comments made back on the help from others (space, economics etc) my suggestion will go no where but for "i told you so purposes"

I do not reccomend that one line carry two drains. should be a line a drain,
otherwise the heavies accumulate in the line over time.

10-14-2004	#1 (permalink)
simon Nisai Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 55	vortex size in brief will a 51ins height and 36ins width vortex, fed from two aerated bottom drains give me good settlement before the sequence 1/4 plus pumps to the bacci shower. If not , what is the minimum size of a vortex to work. Thankyou.

10-14-2004	#6 (permalink)
simon Nisai Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 55	vortex size the pond plan is 4000 gallons, two aerated bottom drains feeding 51ins height and 36ins width paragon plastics vortex with twin 4in or 3in inlet havent decided yet. I cant put a sieve on the pond as I am designing this pond for a friend and budget he has wont stretch for that. This is the first time I be installing a bacci shower, hence the reason for this post. Then the sequence 1/4 plus pump will feed the bacci shower. Returning by a weir along side a tpr from the skimmer, turning over roughly 5200 gallons an hour with both pumps.A 4kw heater, 55w tmc uv and 2 airtech 40 complete the pond set up. Thanks for the replys so far but now have conflicting advice, I know bigger is best, but in this case space is really restricted. What size vortexs are you guys using out there with bacci showers.

10-14-2004	#7 (permalink)
markgardner Tategoi Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ojiya, Niigata, Japan Posts: 372	Simon Does the design have one or 2 bakki showers? I'm guessing 2 or a double sized unit? I would look at having some solids removal on each bottom drain independently. Have a look at what Maurice has done with static kaldnes in 2ft vortexes at http://www.koi-uk.co.uk/mechanical_f...capable_of.htm . You could have one of these units on each drain line and then pump to the showers. I presently run a 2ft 'vortex' with a vertical sheet of fine matala matting to stop solids prior to 2ft chamber of submerged BHM and a 3tier bakki shower. This gives excellent quality water and simple maintenance. Mark __________________ Mark Gardner

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10-14-2004	#2 (permalink)
Andrew Sansai Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: South Staffs, England Posts: 209	Simon, The size sounds fine, just about the norm, obvioulsy position in plan and elevation (level) of your input/s and out take will have a bearing.

10-14-2004	#3 (permalink)
ivar Fry Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: almere Posts: 6	[quote=Andrew]Simon, The size sounds fine, just about the norm, obvioulsy position in plan and elevation (level) of your input/s and out take will have a bearing.[/QUOTE Simon, Why do you don't go for a sieve like a bowd sieve. Small space and a big dirt collector. http://www.click2roark.com/cgi-win/w...20040812191120 see the link for picture's ivar

10-14-2004	#4 (permalink)
markgardner Tategoi Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ojiya, Niigata, Japan Posts: 372	Simon Can you provide more details of complete set up you propose? Mark

10-14-2004	#5 (permalink)
Maurice Tategoi Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Somerset, England. (land of the country bumpkin) Posts: 397	It's not big enough. 2,000 gallons an hour is pushing it for 36" diameter. With a 1/4 plus you need to be looking at 48" or bigger. Just my view if you want good settlement. Maurice.

10-14-2004	#8 (permalink)
simon Nisai Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 55	Mark I thought the bacci shower( One unit, 4 trays with 60 kilo of bhm) would handle 4000gallons. Again space issue, we only wanted to use one vortex, from both drains.I think the cut matala is a good way of improving settlement. All I want to do is to stop the wirlpool effect in the vortex, if it happens because of the flow rate and keep the settlement to the floor of the vortex and not in continuous suspension. Just a thought has anyone tried using hydrocleans before the shower unit.

10-14-2004	#9 (permalink)
markgardner Tategoi Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ojiya, Niigata, Japan Posts: 372	Simon I think that would be pushing it to be honest, with settlement you'd be looking at 3000 max i would think. Also, if I understand correctly, only half the turnover is going over the shower, the other pump is just running the skimmer so not really turnover, just water movement. To be perfectly honest I think the design is incorrect and needs to be reviewed. Mark

10-14-2004	#10 (permalink)
dick benbow Honmei Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 4,161	Was surprised that no one commented about the two bottom drains into one line and then both into the settling chamber. judging from the comments made back on the help from others (space, economics etc) my suggestion will go no where but for "i told you so purposes" I do not reccomend that one line carry two drains. should be a line a drain, otherwise the heavies accumulate in the line over time.