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Thread: Polyurea Spray Liner Pond

  1. #191
    Tosai
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    Lee: Here are pics for you. First, a side view of the uprights. These are constructed from 2"x6" western cedar, 12' long ones are used on one side and 8' at the other, because I wanted the slanted roof. (The boards are never perfect ... there may be an inch of difference among them, so the shortest in the batch controls; and all the rest are sawn to be the same length.) Extra boards were acquired to be sawn into approx. 24" sections. Each upright is a "sandwich of two boards with the sections placed at the bottom and in the middle. On the 12' tall ones, two middle pieces were used. At the top, a section was placed cross-wise to make a base on which the lintel boards would be supported later. These were mitred (angled) so a bolt could be put through it into the lintel board (later). These were placed not at the very top, but a distance from the end to precisely accomodate a 2x6 being inserted. (This will not be exactly 6", since 6" boards will actually be 5.75" or some such.) The two boards and the sections are clamped together, holes are drilled through for bolts, which are tightly fixed with a metal washer and nut. That creates the upright.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Polyurea Spray Liner Pond-dsc01907.jpg   Polyurea Spray Liner Pond-dsc01909.jpg  

  2. #192
    Tosai
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    May 2005
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    Then the lintel pieces were made ... which was simple enough. Since I was doing a structure 24' long, two 12' 2x6s were just right. All that had to be done was cut out a notch at outer top corner (so that a "rafter" could be snugly fit in the notch later & be screwed together). Then notches were sawn where the rafters would cross.... like what we called Lincoln Logs" when I was a kid.

    The rafters were notched similarly.

    Because I wanted a slanted roof, all the notches on the rafters were "angled" so they would slip readily into the notches sawn out of the lintel boards. This part of the job that required real skill in marking the boards, tilting them to create a mitre cut, etc.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Polyurea Spray Liner Pond-dsc01910.jpg  

  3. #193
    Tosai
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    Once the uprights were set in concrete (getting them square etc is a bear of a task!), the lintel boards were easily slipped into place at the top end of the "sandwich", bolted in place. Then the outside rafters at each end were placed and scewed into the lintel boards (remember the notch that was made). Then the rest of the notched rafters were placed into the respective notch on the lintel boards. These were screwed from the top through the rafter into the lintel. We placed one rafter exactly against the middle upright so it could also be scewed into upright from the side. (These were long screws ... like 6".)

    It is really a simple design for somebody with carpentry skill. But, I have to say that I'm not that somebody!

    BTW, here is the "ugly" side of the bolts showing the washers & nuts. Merle pointed out that this unattractice side can be very utilitarian if you want to hang orchid plaques or the like. An S-hook type hanger, or round hoop, can be placed on the end of the bolt, and another large nut can be screwed on so the hanger cannot slip off. So, when arranging the uprights we did not put them all the same direction. Whichever side was the one we thought more likely to be used to hang an orchid, we turned the "ugly" side to face that way.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Polyurea Spray Liner Pond-dsc01911.jpg  

  4. #194
    Tosai
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    May 2005
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    The lumber requirements for my 20' x 24' structure:

    10 2x6, 12' long

    12 2x6, 8' long

    9 2x6, 20' long.

    The 8' lengths were used for the 3 8' uprights and cut into sections to make the "middles" for the upright sandwiches.

    All bolts were screw-type.

    Lee: Let me know if there is a pic you would like taken. I think I've about exhausted my ability to explain this sort of thing. I hope nothing I said causes a misimpression. Better that I've confused so nobody relies on what I've said, than have a misunderstanding that leads to problems.

  5. #195
    Administrator Brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee

    What we all need is to have everyone ask him...to add spell check.

    Ok, 'now' how do we do that?

    Lee
    Don't have to ask for a spell checker Lee...I eavesdrop quite a bit you know!

    I've found one that seems to work rather well, and have hacked it into the forum.

    rgds,
    Brian Sousa
    Koi-Bito Forum

  6. #196
    Lee
    Lee is offline
    Sansai
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    Dear World Class Construction Expert,


    Indeed, I love that wonderful covering you've built for yourself...

    Yes, I love it. And, only wish I had one the same over my pond.

    M - I didn't ask, or did I? Are you going to paint it or let it weather naturally?

    I've painted all the wood over my filter house. I have had to use pressure treated lumber due to the wet location. However, had I a choice I would have used rough cut cedar. Is really nice in a natural setting as you created for your pond's environment.

    Are you painting? Staining? Or, leaving natural?

    As for Brian Sousa dah eves'dropper, dat he is, finally I dunt' and U dun't hav ta woriy abut spellin as he had puut zpell cheque on diz Koi-Bitorino site. Wha' a greeat guy, finly.

    Let'z sees if it woiks, as he suggesd - ok?

    All the best,

    Lee A.
    Grand Cayman

  7. #197
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    NorCal Biotch!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee
    Dear World Class Construction Expert,


    Indeed, I love that wonderful covering you've built for yourself...

    Yes, I love it. And, only wish I had one the same over my pond.

    M - I didn't ask, or did I? Are you going to paint it or let it weather naturally?

    I've painted all the wood over my filter house. I have had to use pressure treated lumber due to the wet location. However, had I a choice I would have used rough cut cedar. Is really nice in a natural setting as you created for your pond's environment.

    Are you painting? Staining? Or, leaving natural?

    As for Brian Sousa dah eves'dropper, dat he is, finally I dunt' and U dun't hav ta woriy abut spellin as he had puut zpell cheque on diz Koi-Bitorino site. Wha' a greeat guy, finly.

    Let'z sees if it woiks, as he suggesd - ok?

    All the best,

    Lee A.
    Grand Cayman

    It's okay, let it go...Feelings shouldn't be hurt and this hobby shouldn't be taken so seriously. Everyone is here to help and enjoy a hobby that we all can share.

  8. #198
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Tony: That was carribbean-flavored dry Brit humor Brian will understand... unless he has been in Japan too long.

    Lee: I'm going to let it weather. I could not find anyone who could assure that nothing harmful would leach out of any particular paint or stain, so the useful life of the wood exposed to our hot, humid climate will be running its natural course. Many years ago I had a western cedar shadehouse for bromeliads, orchids, etc. After 7 years it was still standing, but I tore it down to make way for a structure better designed for my use. So, I'm figuring I will get at least 7 years out of this structure without painting, and probably more. You will recall that I did use a water sealant on the uprights since no risk of water dripping from them into the pond and they will be more exposed to water from irrigation, so I have more of concern about them. The structure will probably be two-toned in 6 months due to the water sealant retarding the natural weathering process on the uprights only. In a couple of years I expect all the wood will be shades of gray.

  9. #199
    Lee
    Lee is offline
    Sansai
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    Hummm....sealants, paints and stuff...

    Mike,

    You raised an interesting and potentially a frightening question. However, perhaps, mitigated by the size of the pond and by the amount of water.

    Query is - what is the effect of run off from a wooden painted structure (I have recently had built a small hospital tank over which I have had a wooden open slatted cover built of pressure treated lumber which I had painted to seal out the aresenic, I understand is put into pressure treated lumber).

    Now, I wonder if the white latex paint which I used to paint over the pressure treated lumber I had to use might prove to be as eqaually dangerous or more dangerous - which for a hospital tank of (7' L x 5' W x 4' H) could become a real problem for me...yes?

    What do you think?

    Lee A
    Grand Cayman

    P.S. I just tried Brian's new spell check...and, nothing happened. Curious, huh?

  10. #200
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Lee: I do not know. I posted a query on several boards in early April (or around then) asking if anyone knew of a safe paint or sealant for use over a koi pond. I received no responses. So, I decided not to apply anything that would be over the pond. Over 25 years ago I messed up using an outdoor paint on wood planks erected to provide shade for a bromeliad collection. Bromeliads are very sensitive to copper and other metals. As plants died for no apparent reason, I learned that the paint contained copper (among other things) as a rot inhibitor. So, I may get more sensitive on the subject than others. Certainly, the pond/tank volume is an important factor. "Dilution is the solution for pollution."

    I would not necessarily be concerned about latex paint per se; but I would want to learn if the paint had additives to retard rot and what they were. The anti-fungal additives are often copper compounds. The treated lumber is a potential hazard. So, I understand painting to seal it and try to prevent leaching. In a year or so, under the hot Cayman sun, the paint will likely begin to weather away or it will crack/peel. Then the copper and asenate compounds can leach from the wood. I've had fairly good experience using polyurethane paint on a wood swing exposed to the elements. It did not begin to crack until after about 3 years.

    I think it would be better to not have treated lumber over the hospital tank. However, alternatives are hard to figure out. .... People who do not live in a humid, warm climate do not appreciate how quickly wood will rot. (When I see those scenic, old wooden barns in the rural areas of the U.S. that have real winters, I can only think how they would not last but a few years in Florida.) But, now you have it. So, what to do? Before you get frustrated, tear it down and start over, I'd suggest checking on the paint. If you can verify that it has no harmful additives, then one worry is eliminated. Then I'd like to test the water to see if harmful metals have leached into it. I am not aware of a test kit for arsenic, but copper test kits are available and the less expensive ones used in the saltwater aquarium hobby should be adequately sensitive for your purposes. If the copper has not leached from the lumber into the pond, I'd doubt anything else had. I'd probably change out all the water before using it as a hospital/quarantine tank. Then, you need to watch for weathering of the paint.

    If you decide to get rid of the slatted roof, the uprights are not a risk (I assume dew and rain on them does not drip into the pond). Perhaps you could just use shadecloth over the uprights to create a mini-screen room, or something like that?

    Anyway, those are my thoughts. No real answer, but maybe helpful to you in thinking it through.

    BTW, I was thinking of you as Arlene developed last night. Glad the storm did not intensify until after leaving your area. We all need another year before dealing with another hurricane.

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