Bakki shower thread continuation

[Valarc]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori I am thankful too, I am glad everyone has a difference of opinions...This thread needs to go to the "Myth Busters" and not stay on this board...

HAHA! I LOVE that show. Their scientific method is usually incredibly flaky, but man is it entertaining. Of course, they wouldn't test BHM unless they could work an explosion into it somehow

[Mike T]

Valarc:

Your quote: "I'm quite thankful not everyone shares this mentality. If more people thought like you, we'd still be stuck in the stone age."

Mr. V... I think you went over the line with this one... there are actually many hobbyist who don't have the time, energy or interest to break down every product scientifically... Many, myself included, depend on the experience of others like JR, Steve Childers, Maurice among others to lead us in the right direction...

If you read Aquatori's other quotes you'd see that he doesn't use BHM nor does he intend to at this time...

I hate the fact that this board is being lowered to the level of some others with all the personal attacks and name calling...

We should kill this tread already, let everyone who cares do their tests and report the results on a new thread...

Have a nice day...Aloha! Mike

[Valarc]

Mike I completely disagree with you. My statement was in no way a personal attack. I admit freely I've been guilty of doing so in the past but that was not at all the case here.

You're right, not every hobbyist has the time to test everything for himself, nor do I expect them to... HOWEVER, saying "I don't care why it works" is very different from saying "I'm not motivated enough to figure out why it works on my own". You don't have to be willing to do the work yourself, but you should still be interested in the knowledge you could gain. You yourself said you learn from the things JR, Maurice, and others do... that is much different from aquitori's stance that no one should care why it works. It's bad enough to be uninterested in science yourself, but to further claim that OTHERS shouldn't be interested either is incredibly foolish. (again, not directed at any one person in particular, but... ) If you don't CARE why it works, why are you even wasting your time reading this thread in the first place?

Everyone keeps chiming in that this board is better than all the others, that we shouldn't lower it to the level of others with the personal attacks. Maybe we shouldn't "lower" it to the level of others where people actually care about the truth, either? Searching for truth isn't always pretty, but I think it's a noble enough goal that it's worth suffering through some unpleasantness.

[woodyaht]

Mike T you hit it right on the head.

I hope that my personal observations of how JR responds to people that aren't on his "band wagon", don't put me in the slanderous class. If it does I am sorry.

All I was trying to point out is this thread was going along just fine until JR came in and decided to stir things up. One post of JR's had some info that pertained to the thread subject. I would have never said a word if JR was posting about his findings of his test.

JR, I don't have any hostility towards you one bit. I think you have a wonderful amount of knowledge of Koi, but I find how you carry yourself as a professional in the hobby/these forums, is sometimes less than professional.

We are all here to learn and make positive steps forward in the hobby.

[luke frisbee]

A few years back I dumbly believed we were all about the same..
I was spending tme after class helping a recently retired lady learn about clay so she could acquire the knowledge to do the things she was unsuccessfully attempting. After 15 minutes she got very upset and said, " I don't want to learn, I want to do."
She was emphatic, she did not want to learn about the thing she was trying to achieve, she just wanted it to happen. SHe paid for the class, and thought that should be enough to make her a successful potter.

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valarc Mike I completely disagree with you. My statement was in no way a personal attack. I admit freely I've been guilty of doing so in the past but that was not at all the case here. You're right, not every hobbyist has the time to test everything for himself, nor do I expect them to... HOWEVER, saying "I don't care why it works" is very different from saying "I'm not motivated enough to figure out why it works on my own". You don't have to be willing to do the work yourself, but you should still be interested in the knowledge you could gain. You yourself said you learn from the things JR, Maurice, and others do... that is much different from aquitori's stance that no one should care why it works. It's bad enough to be uninterested in science yourself, but to further claim that OTHERS shouldn't be interested either is incredibly foolish. (again, not directed at any one person in particular, but... ) If you don't CARE why it works, why are you even wasting your time reading this thread in the first place? Everyone keeps chiming in that this board is better than all the others, that we shouldn't lower it to the level of others with the personal attacks. Maybe we shouldn't "lower" it to the level of others where people actually care about the truth, either? Searching for truth isn't always pretty, but I think it's a noble enough goal that it's worth suffering through some unpleasantness.

When I made that comment "I don't care" I am merely pointing out, I am not goin to fix what isn't broken, there's no need for me to do so. My pond is working fine without me messing around with it and plus I dont have the cash like others do to add a "Nexus" or a "Bacteria House". That's what I was trying to get across.

In everyone's search to "recreate the wheel", there will be skeptics. I know that for sure. The Bacteria House is a mystery we all do agree, who what why where and when...no one will ever know...If it works for others then good. I am not hurt by your comments everyone has their opinions....But honestly, if they cant tell you why it works or doesn't work on Koimag.com or Koiphen.com then there is no answer on this forum...So I would toss this chuppa thread in the garbage....

[jnorth]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valarc Everyone keeps chiming in that this board is better than all the others, that we shouldn't lower it to the level of others with the personal attacks. .

Better is a relative term. I think different is more accurate. All the boards are different in their own way. The majority of people on this board prefer peaceful discussions on Koi and Koi ponds (not to be confused with goldfish or water gardens). I've found these types of posts to be very informative with alot less fluff. I treat people on web forums like I treat the people I work with everyday. While I may disagree with or "attack" their work habits I would never attack them personally because in truth I don't "really" know most of them personally. Now why don't we all get back to a more pleasant discussion on this as I believe more flys can be caught with sugar then vinegar.

[aquitori]

I don't know whatelse there should be talked about? Maybe this thread should be changed to "BH+Momotaro food+Huge Pond= Huge fish" but damn we would go back to BH again...How about Momotaro's Huge Fish....Naw forget it it will go back to BH again....Let's talk about "Force injecting pure oxygen into the pond, for better growth" by Sakai Hiroshima...Sounds better....less drama...

[Mike T]

Mr. V:

Let me try another tact...I own, outright, a casio Illuminator watch which I paid the kingly sum of US$8.95 for... I've had the watch for 3 years and it still works fine... I look at it and it tells me the time, does not run fast does not run slow always on time... Do I know how it works, NO...Do I care how it works NO... Do even care how the watch can be made so cheaply and yet run so well, NO... I could care less... There are more important things in life than worrying about the cost of a cheap watch...

It's the same with BH media, I actually installed it because I was worried that the summer heat of 90 degrees would over heat the water in my 900 gallon, 2.5' deep pond... So I installed a DIY BAK shower as a cooling tower, if it did half the things it was promoted to do, fine... As it turns out it did everything they said it would do... Do I know why...NO, Do I care, NO... I have better things to do than worry about why the BS work, like contemplating my navel... Where the heck did those cobwebs come from

Having said that, If you and/or JR disprove Momotaro's theory, then I'll wonder, HOW COME, you guys say it doesn't work, but it seems to work for me??? Will I try to discredit your finding NO,... Why you ask, Because I COULD CARE LESS... Now if that stagnates us in this spot, then I'm sorry...

BTW: I don't follow everything they say about the product, for instance, I wonder about the "never having to clean it" statement...Only time will tell...

BTW again, what is your field of science? Not a trap, just wondering, JR will vouch for me...

Aloha! Mike

[Valarc]

Mike,
Saying you personally don't care is something I find to be a little disheartening, but then again this is something I deal with on a daily basis during those times I'm functioning as an educator. The main thing I take objection to, though, is those who constantly ask why WE care. It's one thing to not care about the science yourself... its a whole different game when you act like others shouldn't care either.

I run into this constantly in my own research. I'm a physicist, and my specialty is in soft condensed matter. Tewa and george will blast me for the simplified term... but we like to call it "squishy physics". It's the study of materials that aren't quite solid, not quite liquid, which exhibit unusual behaviors. Almost every time I talk about my research in a setting outside of academia, people agressively question why I would "waste my time" on something so "useless" as "squishy physics". Heck, george has repeatedly insulted me for this choice... even insinuating that I must be too stupid to do the "real research" and that's why I'm being dumped off in "hickville Atlanta studying squishy poop". I constantly find myself defending my choice in research, because it's something that doesn't interest others and therefore they feel it isn't worthwhile. I see that same mentality coming from those who keep saying "get rid of this thread - it's useless". To them, it might be, but to many of us it's an important process to explore the science. I find mentalities like this to be incredibly dangerous, and sadly this concept seems to be gaining more ground. Funding of research for the sake of research is steadily declining in America. People don't seem to think knowledge for the sake of knowledge is worthwhile anymore.

I'd like to leave you with this thought... if Planck, Heisenberg, Einstein, Shrodinger, and others simply accepted the photoelectric effect, and didn't try to delve into the depths of HOW it works, we might have never figured out quantum mechanics. Without QM, we would have no desktop computers, no solid-state lasers, no genetic engineering, no MRIs... the list goes on and on. At the time, no one had any idea what technlogies would develop from their studies, but they explored them anyway, for the sake of exploration. You don't have to have the scientific mind yourself, but that "stupid experiment" that you don't care about today might just lead to something that changes the course of human history.

P.S. Unfortunately, I can't end on that dramatic effect because I can predict the silly responses people are going to type. No, I'm not suggesting the study of BHM is going to change the world, but trying to explain WHY we should see scientific exploration as a vital part of the human experience, no matter how trivial it appears today.