Bakki shower thread continuation

[James P]

Had a good nights sleep and found it interesting when I logged on this morning that the posts on this thread are increasing! I noticed a long time ago that a little tension in the subject matter excites ‘people molecules’ and increases traffic! You will notice that Koiphen’s thread on this subject had 22,000 hits! Beware the people who say they don’t like a good back and forth! They’re lying folks, its usually just for self aggrandizement! I see your ‘ego’ and I’ll raise you an ‘ego’! LOLs



First, for my newest detractor – Chris. Chris I answered every question you ever asked me on line. And this is your opinion of me? An ego driven, obnoxious jerk? Thanks bud, thanks a lot!

And for the record, I have no obligation to be a ‘professional’. I’m NOT a professional! Nor am I an ideologue.



Mike T, I also have an interest in History. And Carp/koi have a fascinating interplay with mankind in history. Easily transported and easily bred, carp seems almost destine to move around the world with man. From the Romans to the Silk Road, the Portuguese traders and the mountain farmers of Japan, carp play BIG! I recommended ‘The Last Samurai’ to someone for its accurate portrayal of Samurai life. But it is also a fascinating and detailed history of 19th century politics and history. Very interesting!



As for my willingness to stifle my opinion on different filter designs and filter media- it ain’t gunna happen, so get used to it.

The core issues in bakki design that both concern me and fascinate me are:

1) no prefiltration- no one can explain where the organics go and attempts to brush this issue off seem to point to special anaerobic activity in the pores of the media and/or special radiation from heated ceramic that changes water chemistry and burns away organics. I have my own theory as to why it works for Maeda and semi-open/ open system design but that is another subject.

2) The fascinating mass hypnosis that has taken place regarding observations when shifting filters from submerged systems to a standard wet/dry filter system. The resulting cult like mentality that has formed is fun for the guy bonding element but is stunningly naïve in its perspective. This statement in no way is an attempt to degrade the product or concept of wet/dry filtration! It is simply an acknowledgement that innocence can make us all look foolish at times.



Perhaps the greatest disservice to the koi keeping public regarding this issue is the implication that outdoor growing , mudponds, genetics and open systems are NOT all part of the finished Momotaro product. If one was getting information from the Internet exclusively, they would believe that Momotaro koi are all raised in bakki shower ponds like we do in our backyards. This is a distortion of the Japanese experience. Is it on purpose or just over enthusiasm? Time will tell.



And for those that find me hateful and mean spirited, I have gotten more than a few private Emails of disappointment and disillusionment from bakki shower owners. No system is perfect, so I’m not the least bit surprised or heartened in any way by these reports. They could be for several reasons. But I have not shared any or asked the authors to share any just to win a debate. Unless the reasons and science are known FOR FAILURE, it does no good to support that kind of vague evidence.

[aquitori]

Me I just woke up and it's pretty early West Coast time...You know what this thread reminds me of? That movie "The God's Must be Crazy"....instead of a Coke bottle I see them using a big stick of Bacteria House!!! Well anyways, back to more serious stuff, like trying to make money and why the hell am I paying $3 a gallon for gas.....Then again Bacteria House seems to be everyone's concern here....on to the next thread my KOI-KICHI friends...

[GazKoi]

You should be so lucky wish we could get gas that cheap here in the UK!!!!!!

[Eclipsar]

We are paying 2.5 times that amount in the UK for petrol

Regards

Chris

[aquitori]

I heard, Europe and Asia has it worse than us...And were complaining why the Bacteria House works and doesn't work...Who cares right? My main concern is gas gets more expensive the price of koi and dry goods might go up too, due to shipping cost...

[junglegeorge12]

I agree with you aquitori, the only people who should be overly concerned with why bh works is folks who sell it or folks doing R&D for different reasons. Kind of like a surfboard, I do not care why it floats and works, only that is does and gets me where I am going!

There have been a mountain of posts on here with folks testifying about how well it worked for them, foks who have tried many systems prior to BH. In other words, it floats and does the job well, and that is really all a hobbyist needs to know.

tewa brought out the real reason some want to antagonize and cast negative shadows over others to get responses, even to the point of outright lying and putting words in their mouths they never spoke, such as JR's insinuations about Mikes.

Tewa, I also noticed that we respected the wishes of those who started another thread, but the same folks do not respect your request when you started this thread and have changed the entire purpose of it to their own agenda, which is slamming others and gathering data for some reason, even to the point of debating philosophy and values that are really irrelevant.........go philosophize on your own thread

[tewa]

The core issues in bakki design that both concern me and fascinate me are:

1) no prefiltration- no one can explain where the organics go and attempts to brush this issue off seem to point to special anaerobic activity in the pores of the media and/or special radiation from heated ceramic that changes water chemistry and burns away organics. I have my own theory as to why it works for Maeda and semi-open/ open system design but that is another subject.

Hmmmmmmmmm I wonder why JR's pond had foam rafts even with prefiltration

2) The fascinating mass hypnosis that has taken place regarding observations when shifting filters from submerged systems to a standard wet/dry filter system. The resulting cult like mentality that has formed is fun for the guy bonding element but is stunningly naïve in its perspective. This statement in no way is an attempt to degrade the product or concept of wet/dry filtration! It is simply an acknowledgement that innocence can make us all look foolish at times.

Then a conventional submerge with a TT that has been around for 20 years really shouldn have any DOCs .



Perhaps the greatest disservice to the koi keeping public regarding this issue is the implication that outdoor growing , mudponds, genetics and open systems are NOT all part of the finished Momotaro product. If one was getting information from the Internet exclusively, they would believe that Momotaro koi are all raised in bakki shower ponds like we do in our backyards. This is a distortion of the Japanese experience. Is it on purpose or just over enthusiasm? Time will tell.


Have you watch the KOI BITO momotaro dvd, i suggest you do so. Ian graham and Cliff dont have mud ponds to raise their koi in. I dont, and just about all bakki shower users dont and most of us have achieved growths we never achieved before of around 4 to 5cm a month (providing we have the right water parameters). I guess our over enthusiasm is not justified. Tine will tell and we will have even more koi growing at that rate


[/quote]

[tewa]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori I heard, Europe and Asia has it worse than us...And were complaining why the Bacteria House works and doesn't work...Who cares right? My main concern is gas gets more expensive the price of koi and dry goods might go up too, due to shipping cost...

hey aquitori

here in aus fuel has jumped up 20 percent from 1 dollar to 1.20 in 3 weeks. Delivery companies now charge a variable fuel charge rate

tewa

[junglegeorge12]

diesel here went up .10/litre in one week---

the governor is trying to retaliate against the trucking industry for striking in response to his lifting all regulations on utilities pricing, and letting the public works get away with wrecking people's vehicles and not repairing damaged roads they get paid to, then using bad roads to justify an extra tax on trucking companies----a friggin circus, and somebody needs to shoot the ringmaster

the friendly governor gave himself a paycut right after that, then bought a bigger house??? gee wonder where the money came from.....

[aquitori]

This discussion is even I say, the scientists/skeptics cant prove why this stuff works or not works...And on the other side people have proof that their water quality has gotten better since adding it...Is it a deadlock or dead horse...I think a dead horse...So let's drop this and keep talking about gas...