Bakki shower thread continuation - Page 3 - Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine

Valarc · 08-16-2005

Oh boy... the majority of respondants being nice to him say he'd be best off to leave the FIR stuff alone and what does he do... I'll leave this one to you guys, I hope you have fun reading some of the most ridiculous attempts at scientific explanation since the Fox "faked moon landing" conspiracy theory a few years ago. I'm out of this thread like tewa is out of his mind. Peace.

Akinosan · 08-16-2005

Wow! This is like dejavue all over again! Seriously folks, if the BH works so well, who the hell cares how or why it works so well, just let me know when the cost will come down to my level. I've seen first hand how well it works, I just can't afford it yet! Hey, maybe its just the scrubbing bubbles!

woodyaht · 08-16-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akinosan

Wow! This is like dejavue all over again! Seriously folks, if the BH works so well, who the hell cares how or why it works so well, just let me know when the cost will come down to my level. I've seen first hand how well it works, I just can't afford it yet! Hey, maybe its just the scrubbing bubbles!

EXACTLY!!!!!

D@z · 08-16-2005

I too am going to bow out of this thread, Tewa, please read my first post on this thread, you are making a fool of yourself time and again. I'm not here to attack you but simply offer you some advice. What you choose to do with it is your business of course but it is getting embarrasing now.

Edit: I've just followed a link to your website. I had no idea you had a vested interest in momotaro, I thought you were a missinformed hobiest. It all comes clear now. Hope trading standards dont see that drivvle on there, someone could be in a spot of bother.

greg · 08-16-2005

Brian,

Do us all a favour and lock this thread before it deteriates like it has on other boards.

I tried to change the angle on this several posts ago and get it back on the straight and narrow to no avail.

I am now not going to read or contribute to this thread anymore -

IT'S RIDICULOUS.

JasonS · 08-16-2005

Skipping all the scientific and pseudo-scientific arguments (which are important in theory but sometimes fail in the face of actual practice) I think we have this: it is a fine media but maybe we can get the same or similar results with cheaper materials.

*shrug* -- OK.

When theory is proven then can likely find materials that give better X for Y performance.

In the meantime I think we've got good lessons -- shower filtration is nice, greater turnover through filtration is nice, removal of DOCs is nice. These apply to every media and every system.

So does that make BH media itself special? Not so much. Is the BH media worth the extra $$? Well, this comes down to a value judgement like 'how much are you willing to spend on a fish'... I've tried it, it is nice media, but I'm not converting everything over right now. I think there are better bang for buck options for my pond right now.

For a pond like MikeM's everything else is already top notch and the BH media and trays just makes it better.

Is a Mercedes worth the $$ over a Toyota? That is for you to decide. I think comparing the BH media vs lava rock similar -- they both roughly equivalent things, just one is better overall (degradation, clogging, etc).

kingkong · 08-16-2005

[quote=MikeM]Tewa, KingKong, Valarc: If you are going to continue the discussion on this board, please remember that the tone of the postings should be in keeping with the tone of this board. I think too many participants in the Koiphen thread got overly emotional and perhaps a bit frazzled? ....

I will try to tone it down, sorry, I am doing the best I can.

MikeM · 08-16-2005

LOL !!!!!

Ryan S. · 08-16-2005

Leaving out the pseudo-science: Everyone I have known that has installed a shower system using any media has great results, especially those with the ablity to send 2x the pond volume through one each hour. I have used bioballs, k1, and lava rock, all with excellent results. It may vary with lava rock source, but I have never had any "powder" buildup in a lava rock shower (I spend a couple minutes hosing them off before adding). Lava rock and K1 stay clean by themselves even at lower than bakki-type flowrates. (I've had some issues with algae growth on the brand of bioballs I have, but a higher flow rate they may be fine). We can talk about the pseudo-science all day but still any tests with shower or TT filters with bakki and other medias have still never shown significantly superior performance from either. Its easy for bakki users to test, they may already have $2,000-$4,000 in bakki media whats another $10 for some lava rock in bulk, or another $50-75 if you want it bags from Home Depot. If BH was a similar cost, or provided free or loaned I would test. Otherwise its hard to imagine how I could notice an improvement in a pond that is usually very clear, biologically healthy even with heavy feedings, its hard to imagine much better growth either.

Ryan S.

dick benbow · 08-16-2005

Ryan, you and I are on the same page. because I give seminars I will buy the material ( I get nothing free for test product as I owe no one anything) and run it myself so I can give my personal experience.

Bottom line is after all is said and done, you'll only know if it works if you try it yourself. I for one tried it in conjunction with my j-mat and continue to run it that way and am happy to say it works for me.

08-16-2005	#27 (permalink)
kingkong Jumbo Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 950	[quote=MikeM]Tewa, KingKong, Valarc: If you are going to continue the discussion on this board, please remember that the tone of the postings should be in keeping with the tone of this board. I think too many participants in the Koiphen thread got overly emotional and perhaps a bit frazzled? .... I will try to tone it down, sorry, I am doing the best I can. Attached Thumbnails

08-16-2005	#28 (permalink)
MikeM Honmei Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 4,671	LOL !!!!! Last edited by MikeM; 08-16-2005 at 04:36 AM. Reason: To keep it polite :)

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08-16-2005	#21 (permalink)
Valarc Sansai Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 260	Oh boy... the majority of respondants being nice to him say he'd be best off to leave the FIR stuff alone and what does he do... I'll leave this one to you guys, I hope you have fun reading some of the most ridiculous attempts at scientific explanation since the Fox "faked moon landing" conspiracy theory a few years ago. I'm out of this thread like tewa is out of his mind. Peace.

08-16-2005	#22 (permalink)
Akinosan Sansai Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 283	Wow! This is like dejavue all over again! Seriously folks, if the BH works so well, who the hell cares how or why it works so well, just let me know when the cost will come down to my level. I've seen first hand how well it works, I just can't afford it yet! Hey, maybe its just the scrubbing bubbles!

08-16-2005	#24 (permalink)
D@z Sansai Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 152	I too am going to bow out of this thread, Tewa, please read my first post on this thread, you are making a fool of yourself time and again. I'm not here to attack you but simply offer you some advice. What you choose to do with it is your business of course but it is getting embarrasing now. Edit: I've just followed a link to your website. I had no idea you had a vested interest in momotaro, I thought you were a missinformed hobiest. It all comes clear now. Hope trading standards dont see that drivvle on there, someone could be in a spot of bother.

08-16-2005	#25 (permalink)
greg Nisai Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: England. Posts: 63	Brian, Do us all a favour and lock this thread before it deteriates like it has on other boards. I tried to change the angle on this several posts ago and get it back on the straight and narrow to no avail. I am now not going to read or contribute to this thread anymore - IT'S RIDICULOUS.

08-16-2005	#26 (permalink)
JasonS Tategoi Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Rocklin, CA Posts: 413	Skipping all the scientific and pseudo-scientific arguments (which are important in theory but sometimes fail in the face of actual practice) I think we have this: it is a fine media but maybe we can get the same or similar results with cheaper materials. shrug -- OK. When theory is proven then can likely find materials that give better X for Y performance. In the meantime I think we've got good lessons -- shower filtration is nice, greater turnover through filtration is nice, removal of DOCs is nice. These apply to every media and every system. So does that make BH media itself special? Not so much. Is the BH media worth the extra $$? Well, this comes down to a value judgement like 'how much are you willing to spend on a fish'... I've tried it, it is nice media, but I'm not converting everything over right now. I think there are better bang for buck options for my pond right now. For a pond like MikeM's everything else is already top notch and the BH media and trays just makes it better. Is a Mercedes worth the $$ over a Toyota? That is for you to decide. I think comparing the BH media vs lava rock similar -- they both roughly equivalent things, just one is better overall (degradation, clogging, etc).

08-16-2005	#29 (permalink)
Ryan S. Sansai Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NC Posts: 252	Leaving out the pseudo-science: Everyone I have known that has installed a shower system using any media has great results, especially those with the ablity to send 2x the pond volume through one each hour. I have used bioballs, k1, and lava rock, all with excellent results. It may vary with lava rock source, but I have never had any "powder" buildup in a lava rock shower (I spend a couple minutes hosing them off before adding). Lava rock and K1 stay clean by themselves even at lower than bakki-type flowrates. (I've had some issues with algae growth on the brand of bioballs I have, but a higher flow rate they may be fine). We can talk about the pseudo-science all day but still any tests with shower or TT filters with bakki and other medias have still never shown significantly superior performance from either. Its easy for bakki users to test, they may already have $2,000-$4,000 in bakki media whats another $10 for some lava rock in bulk, or another $50-75 if you want it bags from Home Depot. If BH was a similar cost, or provided free or loaned I would test. Otherwise its hard to imagine how I could notice an improvement in a pond that is usually very clear, biologically healthy even with heavy feedings, its hard to imagine much better growth either. Ryan S.

08-16-2005	#30 (permalink)
dick benbow Honmei Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 4,189	Ryan, you and I are on the same page. because I give seminars I will buy the material ( I get nothing free for test product as I owe no one anything) and run it myself so I can give my personal experience. Bottom line is after all is said and done, you'll only know if it works if you try it yourself. I for one tried it in conjunction with my j-mat and continue to run it that way and am happy to say it works for me.