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Thread: AKCA board meeting minutes May 8 2009

  1. #31
    Guest Nancy M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roddy Conrad View Post
    Karen was not "paid".

    She also was never "paid" for the stuff she did for a koi farm, which makes her a volunteer, not a professional. Hasn't Nancy Morales done similar for a koi dealer? Is Nancy then a professional and subject to a nasty, petty meaningless 18 page indictment from Don Chandler?

    Don Chandler is nuts as suggested above.

    Roddy,

    Get your facts straight......... I WORKED for a koi dealer, I got a weekly paycheck, and I never tried to hide it....

    For someone who claimed they never got paid and have volunteered so much of there time....

    I wonder why I recall talking to her on the phone, while she was a KHA and she was calling all the dealers and vets, to find out if they would be apart of the DBHP... And if you go back and read the AKCA minutes from that time frame, it shows that the director of the KHA/DBHP had the AKCA pay $3000.00 to a marketing person to gather this information...


    If I was a KHA I would be pissed to know that I had been giving all my time and help freely, while others were being compensated......

  2. #32
    Jumbo HenryC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutuscz View Post
    I am in the same state as Karen. I know of no koi-business owned or run by her??
    Nobody ever said she owned a Koi business. She was paid by a business to promote them, that is what she does - marketing. You have obviously not read the documentation provided to the AKCA board or you would not be ranting about how unfair it is. Any sane and semi-intelligent person that read it and understood it is based on documented facts (not just made up lies that seem to come from phen-land) would not be making such unfounded posts. Your pal Roddy claims to have a copy, ask him for it.

  3. #33
    Honmei
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    To Roddy, Brutus and anyone else who wants to continue this unsubstantiated attack on the AKCA, here are the facts based on the AKCA minutes:

    Karen Pattist was determined to have a conflict of interest by the AKCA bylaws. This is uncontrovertable and substantiated by facts. She elected to resign and the board decertified her as a KHA due to such. End of story.

    To continue this attack on the AKCA is simply dragging Karen into an area that she obviously did not want to go in the first place since she chose to resign.

    If you want to continue with it, take it back to KP where ya'll can spin it anyway you wish. If you want to talk about ethics of any party, you might want to explore the topic of undisclosed conflicts of interests and how they can adversely affect an organization.

    I doubt that the rest of the koi world wants to hear about any of this any longer.

    Steve
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  4. #34
    Honmei Brutuscz's Avatar
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    Promoting??That's what you have to say?? So..promoting was needed and you had someone in-house who could do it. so, you hold it against them to get paid for it?? Marketing and promoting hardly make you a koi professional. If a koi business hires someone for marketing..does that make the marketing person a koi professional? I think NOT. If an artist paints a koi picture and sells it...are they an artist or koi professional? This even makes things sound MORE ridiculous. Thanks for proving to everyone that it was a nit picky witch hunt with nothing substantial. NOW, we all know for sure!!!
    Furthermore...it is very interesting that so many of those who have come under fire belong to KP or write for competing magazines. I want to hear someone deny that??
    It just shows how short sighted the akca has become. Here..you have a website with thousands of ravenous koi fans...doing shows and starting magazines. Rather than encourage the expansion and growth of the hobby, you bash it!!! I don't care if you like Stephen H or not. He is a very small part of a big thing in our hobby...that is growing each day. It is a shame, because that short sightedness is going to limit our hobby and the akca. It has already turned hobbyists against each other...just read the previous posts...and you'll KNOW that I am right!!
    My conclusion...we need some young blood and forward thinking in the akca, or it just might come to an end. That would be a shame.
    Also..if it wasn't for another upstart magazine, we wouldn't have this forum at all!!


    If your desire to succeed is greater than your desire to fail, then you will succeed.

  5. #35
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutuscz View Post
    Promoting??That's what you have to say?? So..promoting was needed and you had someone in-house who could do it. so, you hold it against them to get paid for it?? Marketing and promoting hardly make you a koi professional. If a koi business hires someone for marketing..does that make the marketing person a koi professional? I think NOT. If an artist paints a koi picture and sells it...are they an artist or koi professional? This even makes things sound MORE ridiculous. Thanks for proving to everyone that it was a nit picky witch hunt with nothing substantial. NOW, we all know for sure!!!
    Furthermore...it is very interesting that so many of those who have come under fire belong to KP or write for competing magazines. I want to hear someone deny that??
    It just shows how short sighted the akca has become. Here..you have a website with thousands of ravenous koi fans...doing shows and starting magazines. Rather than encourage the expansion and growth of the hobby, you bash it!!! I don't care if you like Stephen H or not. He is a very small part of a big thing in our hobby...that is growing each day. It is a shame, because that short sightedness is going to limit our hobby and the akca. It has already turned hobbyists against each other...just read the previous posts...and you'll KNOW that I am right!!
    My conclusion...we need some young blood and forward thinking in the akca, or it just might come to an end. That would be a shame.
    Also..if it wasn't for another upstart magazine, we wouldn't have this forum at all!!
    Brutus, you are simply WRONG. In addition to the questionable practice of funneling work for payment to what are otherwise volunteers, there were "undisclosed conflicts of interst."

    Now, you obviously do not know all of the facts nor actually care to. Or perhaps you do and are simply attempting a "spin" campaign. In eiother event, take it some where else where other may actually believe your dribble. You simply came here to stir the pot and create controversy where none should exist.

    Steve
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  6. #36
    Daihonmei
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    Brutus,
    Puleeze..it is an organization that can not afford to hire amateurs (never mind A pro). Just because other amateurs decide to establish another amateur endeavor does not mean one is better than the other...The AKCA relies on volunteers...accept that. Volunteers are not getting paid... they are doing the job for very little....
    Until Someone is actually paid to do the job of running the AKCA it will be amateurish from top to bottom. Accept that. No one is getting paid, no one has to be accountable, hell there is no standard of work required.
    I have no understanding of why some of the sensible people make the decision to ruin their lives by trying to run the AKCA.
    I do have an understanding of why some of the others are in it.


    Once again, the AKCA is run by "Volunteers" and the grudgingly-recruited (those are the semi-smart ones). All the Amateur, Volunteer-headed Koi associations are weak because of it. The AKCA is probably still better than the alternatives in the USA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brutuscz View Post
    Promoting??That's what you have to say?? So..promoting was needed and you had someone in-house who could do it. so, you hold it against them to get paid for it?? Marketing and promoting hardly make you a koi professional. If a koi business hires someone for marketing..does that make the marketing person a koi professional? I think NOT. If an artist paints a koi picture and sells it...are they an artist or koi professional? This even makes things sound MORE ridiculous. Thanks for proving to everyone that it was a nit picky witch hunt with nothing substantial. NOW, we all know for sure!!!
    Furthermore...it is very interesting that so many of those who have come under fire belong to KP or write for competing magazines. I want to hear someone deny that??
    It just shows how short sighted the akca has become. Here..you have a website with thousands of ravenous koi fans...doing shows and starting magazines. Rather than encourage the expansion and growth of the hobby, you bash it!!! I don't care if you like Stephen H or not. He is a very small part of a big thing in our hobby...that is growing each day. It is a shame, because that short sightedness is going to limit our hobby and the akca. It has already turned hobbyists against each other...just read the previous posts...and you'll KNOW that I am right!!
    My conclusion...we need some young blood and forward thinking in the akca, or it just might come to an end. That would be a shame.
    Also..if it wasn't for another upstart magazine, we wouldn't have this forum at all!!

  7. #37
    Nisai
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    Question.....just how long has Karen been with the AKCA and how long has she been a KHA? Why would so many KHA's be resigning from this program?? And just for your information SC....no one is spinning anything on KP! But then you know that since you lurk over there! Why not just post the report that was made and let people read it and make up their minds!

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadySusan View Post
    Question.....just how long has Karen been with the AKCA and how long has she been a KHA? Why would so many KHA's be resigning from this program?? And just for your information SC....no one is spinning anything on KP! But then you know that since you lurk over there! Why not just post the report that was made and let people read it and make up their minds!
    First off Susan, I haven't been to KP since June of 2006.

    Now, as stated REPEATEDLY, Karen chose to resign. If you want the report that was prepared for the AKCA Board (not you), perhaps you should ask Karen since she was supplied a copy of such. I would suspect that the AKCA Board is honoring her wishes by not making such public. As to why "so many KHA's be resigning from the program"? I suspect you would have to ask them.

    There should be no minds to "make up" over a resignation...that is of course unless people are spinning falsehoods and others react to such without knowing the facts.

    Steve
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  9. #39
    Nisai Motown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schildkoi View Post
    Brutus, you are simply WRONG. In addition to the questionable practice of funneling work for payment to what are otherwise volunteers, there were "undisclosed conflicts of interst."

    Steve
    Clear and simple, an undisclosed conflict of interest is a terminination offence in any organization, whether profit, non-profit, or volunteer. You can never make an exception, the future negative implications are too great. Being a hard worker can never make up for the potential future damage.

    As for the release of the 18 page report, many times a company or organization will make a deal with the accused party. In return for their resignation, the organization will not release the report and risk futher dammage to the accused party's character. This is a clasic tactic to avoid any possible liability.

    So if this is such a shame, talk to Karen and get her to release the report. My guess is, she would prefer not, and would like this to all go away.

    I'm not suggesting this, but if she were to call KHA's and convince them resign from the AKCA under false pretences, then it's a different matter entirely.

    That's just my opinion,

    Motown

  10. #40
    Honmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motown View Post
    Clear and simple, an undisclosed conflict of interest is a terminination offence in any organization, whether profit, non-profit, or volunteer. You can never make an exception, the future negative implications are too great. Being a hard worker can never make up for the potential future damage.

    As for the release of the 18 page report, many times a company or organization will make a deal with the accused party. In return for their resignation, the organization will not release the report and risk futher dammage to the accused party's character. This is a clasic tactic to avoid any possible liability.

    So if this is such a shame, talk to Karen and get her to release the report. My guess is, she would prefer not, and would like this to all go away.

    I'm not suggesting this, but if she were to call KHA's and convince them resign from the AKCA under false pretences, then it's a different matter entirely.

    That's just my opinion,

    Motown
    Motown,
    You are "spot on" as the Brits would say. I would add that for those that want the report, they should ask their club AKCA representative to contact their board contact. It is the boards decision as to whether to deciminate the information further and not for those attempting to create conflict.

    Steve
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

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