Magoi x Gosanke Bloodlines

[MikeM]

Question: With Sakai having bred back to magoi to obtain size, conformation and genetic strength, and "everyone" getting on board by using his fish in their breeding programs, it seems to me that there would be a much higher rate of culls based on color factors than in older non-magoi lines (as opposed to deformities, which I would expect to be fewer). Can someone say whether I'm guessing correctly? For example, I would expect more sumi and off-gray colors to show up in kohaku fry that have recent magoi blood. ... or, shimmies? If this does not occur, then it teaches something about the recessive characters of red & white, and about the number of generations required to fix a trait. Any observations from folks who travel to Japan in the summer months when culling is at its height?

[shiromujigirl]

I have a magoi culled from a gosanke cross. The more it likes the water the blacker it gets. It has different, wild, crazy looking yellowish eyes.

[lildude]

This is a good thread that never got any answering, bump.

[dick benbow]

Toshio has hung on to representatives of each of his magoi/matsunosuke crosses to continue learning from. He did not release his new magoi bloodline until the genetics could be consolidated and uniform.
While I can't speak for Toshio on the numbers kept % wise, I do know from working with domestic breeders that the numbers of retainable youngsters that show promise are up when using his brood stock. Most of the breeders I'm familar with here in this country deliberately cull very hard.

Mat at Quality koi in new jersey has bred some really nice sanke from that bloodline. A friend of mine in the tri-cities of Washington state has a wonderful example of one from Mat. Isn't henry's sanke from Mat, magoi bloodline?

Since maruzome is relatively new as a feature of Toshio's koi only a few are just getting started using this feature. It'll be a few years before I can comment on what I've seen.

My observation with Toshio is that he'd release no bloodline/feature before it's time because his reputation is depending on it. Those who use his bloodline may not be able to select as well as the master. I do know that Mat has studied under Toshio and that is why most of his brood stock have the master's touch.

[mr_koi]

Hi Dick, Mike and everyone else,

Its funny how this post cropped up at an appropriate time for us at Quality Koi. I just finished culling the last of four ponds full of Magoi Sanke. It was a quiet retail day on the farm which allowed, Bob, Cassie and Myself to drain and pluck the remaining babies from one of the ponds. The koi are just approaching 2 months old and the record size of a keeper high class tategoi is over 7 inches. There were many in the 5-6 size range. The quality of the beni and sumi has amazed me with every cull and there are many winning patterns to boot.

As per Dick's request, Jen has been working hard on the latest issue of 'Nisei News', our farms news letter. It should be sent via email on Monday. There are some pictures of a couple of the Magoi Sanke from the first cull and more info. Anyone interested in receiving a pdf copy can register on Quality Koi

Regarding Mikes original question about the look of culls from Magoi sanke spawns, the junk are about the same proportion to every other sanke cull I have done in the past. The biggest difference is the quality and conformation on the good ones. The lustre of the skin is breathtaking whether thay are are 1.5 inches or 7 inches. This is only the second time I have used this very special female parent. The first time was in 2005. Many of the Nisai sanke available on our website are from her. In the past I have used 4 different Matsunosuke females, 2 Momotaro females, 1 Sakai Hiroshima and 3 Igarashi Hiromi. Henry's Sanke was from a previous non magoi Matsunosuke female. For 2007 I only used the Magoi Sanke.
Sorry for rambling but I could talk for weeks about this particular spawn.

Thanks for reading
Mat

[Richard Rombold]

Go ahead Mat. Love to hear you ramble and see you post. I think we all would love to see some bowl pictures if you had any.