Water Changes

[Ruth Rice]

I just glanced through this post I don't think any one mentioned a big problem regarding water changes. Many people may never use dechlor when doing a water change and because they have always done it that way think they will be ok. The problem is sytems malfunction from time to time and the treatment plant may overdose the normal amount of chlorine or switch to chloramines and then it becomes a problem.
Last year our local water plant's dosing pump failed :shock: and dumped a 55 gal barrel of pp in the system all at once. ( People a mile from the plant had pink water. ) My point is that this could and does happen with chlorine and although if the concentration is quite high you may not have added enough delchor in the system to handle it totally, but you would be much better off than not having added any dechlor at all.
Gee I'm glad we have a well.
Ruth

[Mike Mazur]

A well is in many areas may be the best source for adding water. Even if you have city water for the house; just think of the savings on the house supply as far as conserving drinking water supply versus where you can tap into groundwater... I can't remember who but someone has a seperate meter for gardening water and pond use and pays 900 a year for the water. I wonder the cost of sinking a new seperate well for pond and irrigation use? There is the electric bill to deal w/ but that can't be as bad as buyuing water.

[Brady Brandwood]

The "average" price for a well, drilled to 180 feet, with pump, storage tank, & hook-up is around $3000,... here in the Southern US. An excellent envestment for happy Koi!

Best Wishes,
Brady Brandwood

[Ruth Rice]

Hi Mike,
We just sank our well 2 Februarys ago to the tune of about 6K. They were going to stop at around 306 feet and I made them go another 50 feet. (They keep building houses around here, water table keeps dropping and if I didn't have water changes to do we could have gotten by with our old well - I think). :roll:
Of course you have the issue of low oxygen in wells, but that's no biggie.
Ruth

[MCA]

Brady,

Do you put the water in straight from the pump or do you settle or treat it first?

MCA

[Mike Mazur]

Should You ever be interested Ruth I have some land down not toooooo far from you near the masanutin mountains bout 45 mins from the caverns five acre lot and a 4.8 acre lots as well both for sale! Low O2 water just needs to be let in near a pickup like an auto fill device installed inside skimmer box set it and forget it. Set it a bit high and you can get the overflow effect that is all the rage...

[Ruth Rice]

Hi Brady,
Just saw your posting. Of course up here we have to protect things from freezing so I don't think we could get away with the p-tank exposed like that.

I would also recommend to anyone reading that if you plan on having a well and keeping koi - go deep and over compensate. I had a fit when I came home and found that the well driller stopped at 9 gpm with the depth only being 115 ft. This was before we had a pond but we had also just had to redrill the well at our old house in order to sell the place(drought that year). His words were you'll have plenty of water and never run out. 12 years later we were digging a new well. At least if you go deeper you have more of a reservoir in the pipe. It is almost as cosly to set over a well as to build a new one to make it deeper so we went with a whole new well this time. We still didn't get one of those underground lake hits but at least I can do a water change now and not have to stand by to watch when it pumps dry to I can cut the pump off so it won't burn up - NOT FUN. Much better now
Ruth 8)

[Brady Brandwood]

Hi MCA,

I don't treat the well water here - some of it goes into a storage tank, and sits until it gets used, and some goes right into the ponds, holding tanks, or whatever I'm using it for.

PH - 7.2

Hardness - 90 ppm

Temp. 60 F

out of the ground.

Best Wishes,
Brady Brandwood

[dick benbow]

Interesting thread. was delighted to see henry posting! was curious to get your collective thoughts on running city water thru charcoal/carbon as a declorinator?

[HenryC]

I tested the old spray the water into the pond myth last night. I sprayed a fine mist into the air and allowed it to collect in a bucket 10 feet away. I tested the misted water along with water trickled out of the tap. I saw NO difference in the chlorine level (both were 1.5ppm). As they say on a Discovery Channel show "Myth Busted". So Roddy is probably right; the only thing saving the fish of some hobbyists that refuse to de-chlorinate is the level of organics in the water (the chlorine oxidizes the organics versus the gills).

Check my math:

AES indicates that depending on pH, a 1.6 to 2.6 ST to chlorine ratio is required to effectively neutralize chlorine (they don't go into any more detail than that, it would be nice to have a pH versus required ratio chart). Since ST is cheap and requires an extreme overdose to cause any harm to fish, I round that up to a 3 to 1 ratio.

In my 13% solution I mix up then store in a cool, dark location (130 grams ST in 1 liter of water), 1 fluid oz contains 3.85 grams of ST (130 grams/liter * 0.0296 oz/liter). That 3.85 grams should neutralize 1.28 grams of chlorine. My tap water chlorine varies throughout the year but I always assume it has as much as 3ppm chlorine. 100 gallons of tap water at 3ppm chlorine would have 1.14 grams of chlorine (100 gallons * 3785 grams/gallon * 3/1,000,000). If a 3 to 1 ratio of ST to chlorine is required, then 3.42 grams of ST are required for each 100 gallons of 3ppm tap water added, so the 3.85 grams contained in 1oz of 13% ST solution should effectively neutralize the chlorine.

I have done some tests using carbon to filter out chlorine. The whole house filters that sell at most home improvement stores for around $30 do not live up to their claims. I contacted one manufacturer and they indicated that a new cartridge will remove 99% of chlorine, but after 5000 gallons it would only remove 50%. My tests showed that at 5gpm, a new cartridge dropped my tap water from 1.5ppm to 1.25ppm. I also tried filling a canister type filter with 7lbs of activated carbon. At 5gpm, it dropped my tap water from 1.5ppm to 1.0ppm, so it must take a very large amount of activated carbon to effectively remove chlorine at a useable flow rate. I have looked at some large carbon filters. One I found for $529 has 45lbs of activated carbon and claims to remove chlorine ODOR AND TASTE at 10gpm. Something tells me I will be disappointed in the actual chlorine reduction. They also have a $1000 unit that holds 75lbs of activated carbon.