An opportunity to do something about KHV

[shiromujigirl]

I agree with doc J about doing research in an orderly fashion but disagree about the barn door. Why close the barn door after the horse has gotten out? Oh, shall we just leave it open for KHV positive fish to continue to stream into the country? How helpfull is that?

I think KHV is not quite a "hot zone" virus that kills all it's victims and flames out. But is a pretty darned warm zone virus.

Here we have a virus that infects a pond and kills most of the fish. A few survivors might live to infect another pond. Most of the fish die again and some might live to infect other fish. Here is the sad fact that might in this case be a good thing. Most koi sold in the United States of America die within a year anyway of parasites, bad water, filth holes of ponds they are kept in, etc. If not continually replaced with imports, the survivors would probably peter out and die anyway of other things, usually pond management related. If the disease was not continually pumped into the country, the virus might smoulder out in situ by the disease process itself and (unnatural) attrition. If infected facilitys in the US were forced to depopulate and clean up their act as the one infected with SVC was, this process would be accelerated.

[Werner]

While I agree with most of your post and hope and pray for some transparency among the different countries, scientists and researchers, unfortunately, the die seems to be cast already, by the fact no one has even contacted you. Not to be paranoid here, but a vaccine would mean millions for the developer.

I strongly disagree with your import stance. While there is no proof per-se, it seems that quite a few KHV infected fish are coming in through the Mega-Mart,unscrupulus dealers, breeders, etc. operations from countries with very little or no controls. I favour an import ban on all countries that have Koi or food Carp KHV problems so we can get a handle on our domestic problem. If a KHV Vaccine surfaces, and it's proven that heat treated Koi are not carriers this import ban can be lifted quickly. Who knows, the ban might speed things along and get the scientists on different sides of the pond talking.

There is absolutely no justification to let tons of Koi stream into this country from unregulated and known to be diseased, countries. As with so many things, the operative word here is greed.

[MikeM]

This is proving to be a very interesting thread. Lots of good thoughts. The idea of banning all imports, however, has me cold. I have far less concern about Japanese imports than the small U.S. breeders who hardly know what koi are about. We have a couple of knowledgeable breeders in the U.S., two of whom frequent this board. The others? I had one tell me how a rust-colored chagoi would turn into a benigoi as it aged because the red always gets better. He did not know what matsuba was, and he had one in his sales tank! I am much more concerned by the guys who think they are breeders because their fish spawned on their watch. More controls? I'd agree. Some type of certification of origin? Sounds good. But banning all imports? No. I want my Japanese-bred sanke. [Although my next showa will be American-bred. ] ..... Guess I'm a greedy, self-centered lout.

Thoughts of a koi addict

[Motown]

I agree Mike, this is becoming an interesting thread. I'm not sure I would promote a "ban" as it has been described. I would have supported a temporary ban starting in November and waiting to see if the Japanese regained control. A ban is not a solution, but it is one hell of a reduction in risk.

What I described, and what I believe Brett described was a personel ban on new koi. Brett has stated that he "locks" the gate, and keeps new koi off site for over a year. I believe this to be very responsible. Myself, I will not bring koi in from Japan this year. I not really in the business, just broker a few koi for friends in the form of a mini co-op.

I agree about the ignorance level of some people in the industry. Many enter the business as a way to add an additional revenue crop to the existing product line. Unfortunatly most koi sold in this area are bought as semi -disposable items due to the cold weather. Yet, the best outlets in the area don't suggest ponds deeper then 2 feet and any old mutt that is over 12 inches is worth hundreds of dollars. Go figure!

As for the Japanese koi, I would feel so much better if I could get the images of the Miyakoya auctions out of my mind. Thousands of floating fish cages in one pond containing stock from dozens of professional and backyard breeders. Many of these stocks go back to different farms to be grown on. This is how japanese breeders get variety, they specialize in a few varieties and buy the rest from others to grow on.

If your worried about the health of your existing koi, take the year off and don't buy anything new. Odds are you have too many koi in your pond already. If you do buy, know the history of the koi and know the new qt protocals that the Doc helped develope. Chances are that the koi has shared water several times with other koi in several location within Japan before it arrives here.

Many things can happen in a year.

[Werner]

As someone else mentioned, we're not dealing with only Koi here, but food carp and our ecosystem as well.

Brett may lock his doors, but will the hundreds of backyard and Koi breeders, small importers and hyper Marts? I don't think so, so it's akin to peeing into the wind.

Do we really want to infect our rivers and springs with KHV and, if rivers can be affected, why not aquifers, especially in subtropical and tropical zones. Farfetched? not at all, there are numerous breeder and private ponds connected to the aquifer in my area, that contain Koi.

Japan, the leader in Koi production with it's government sponsored Koi program is, I'm sure working feverishly, on a cure. Until that happy day, we cannot be too cautious.

[Brian]

Hi Werner,

Just wanted to point out that Japan's koi industry isn't exactly "government sponsored" as the agriculture industry is. You'll hear this straight from the elder Niigata breeders in a roundtable discussion in issue #6. You'll more than likely be surprised at the lack of support they get from the Japanese gov't.

rgds,

[Fishbreeder]

Government subsidies to ornamental fish producers are mostly from governments seeking "hard currency". The Japanese Yen amongst those.

Plenty of yen already in Japan so not a good idea to subsidize such farmers. Of course the rice farmers there are among the highest subsidized farmers in the entire world. Different issue. Koi are not considered a priority related to national defense, having enough to eat is.

Countries like China, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc. are another matter altogether. They want dollars, euros, and other hard currencies from the wealthier nations.

I admit it, I been readin' my buddy's issue of Koi Bito, best get my own so's I can see this upcoming article soon as it comes along.

From my own discussions with Japanese koi breeders, they've similar problems from thier governments that I get from my own. Taxes, more taxes, then fees, and more fees, then regulations, and more regulations.

BTW, thanks Brian, you do a great job.

Brett

[Brian]

Thanks buddy! You're making me blush...ops:

Truly a compliment from a true breeder. Issue #6 is going to print tomorrow, so you should get to see the round table within due time. The last true subsidy that the breeders got here was when Tanaka was still prime minister, in the form of a highway and bullet train bringing the world to their door.

Can't imagine that Uncle Sam would ever extend his hand to a koi farmer though! What's the verdict?

[Werner]

Thanks Brian--

I'm looking forward to the next issue.