Nurturing Sumi

[MikeM]

Bringing up this old thread because seems timely once more. Maybe Maurice finished his dinner by now.

[Brutuscz]

Something very simple that no one mentioned. Using a black background. Keep a koi with sumi in a black liner pond. Try putting it in a pool with a white bottom and watch the sumi disappear. The difference is quite dramatic.

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by MikeM Bringing up this old thread because seems timely once more. Maybe Maurice finished his dinner by now.

Must be one hell of a meal.

[Auntiesue]

Wow!! LIGHTBULB MOMENT!!! I've often wondered why sumi finishes better in harder water. But what about the HI? Isn't a high PH and harder water harder on the HI? I would appreciate much more discussion re this topic please!! Here to learn!!

So if I'm to understand the initial summary. If your pond has a higher PH and silicone in the water you are likely to have more stable and better sumi? OK so if you add calcimum bentonite clay to the system, does that count?

...Oh, and lots of 02 also....

[koiczar]

MikeM

Very timely re-post. I too am curious as I have high Ph (7.8-8.0) and my Kh runs around 140 and Gh at or above 300. I have a mix of Gosanke and others as most do. I have approx. 10,000 gallons and notice that colors on some are not as I would like. Harmonizing with what Maurice had written before he went to dinner, oh so long ago, is that it appears that he his right to a high degree. Some of my fish have excellent sumi and/or hi or both. Others seem to be more affected by the water conditions than others. Dick B talks about Hosokai and his breeding of Asagi despite his water conditions being less than ideal for that variety. I have had one of his Asagi in my pond for a year now and she is developing beautifully despite my water conditions. Incidentally, my pond is a converted swimming pool with no coating other than the original plaster.

Brutuscz - When you mentioned a light color pond and it's effect on sumi I had to smile. I remember when I first started this pond up, it was basically a white interior. However, after about 1-2 months, the fish regained their original sumi. That was in 2002. Now that the system has matured, the walls are very dark in color, the water is crystal clear, the fish are doing well other than some having problems bringing up the Sumi or maintaining Hi.

I have always been a believer in the theory about harder sandy bottomed mud ponds are better for sumi based fish such as showas/shiros. Now I understand why. I've always believed that, in theory, fish raised in the Isawa/Hiroshima area might do better in our harder water here as there water is supposedly much harder than that of the Niigata area. What do you guys think/know about this theory. Am I right or full of it?

Mike

[lildude]

Quote: Originally Posted by Alex Gibbs how exactly does silicon help improve sumi, isnt silicon inert?

A catalyst accelerates a chemical reaction. I think in this case, it is speeding along the sumi development. The sand itself is not affected in this process. But why would and how would silicon get into a koi, and what does it exactly do the speed up sumi development.
You mentioned something about melanin clogging the places where sumi developes. And this happens better and more affectively in nitrate free zones, or was it nitrite? well could the silicon be doing the same thing?

[lildude]

Quote: Originally Posted by koiczar MikeM Very timely re-post. I too am curious as I have high Ph (7.8-8.0) and my Kh runs around 140 and Gh at or above 300. I have a mix of Gosanke and others as most do. I have approx. 10,000 gallons and notice that colors on some are not as I would like. Harmonizing with what Maurice had written before he went to dinner, oh so long ago, is that it appears that he his right to a high degree. Some of my fish have excellent sumi and/or hi or both. Others seem to be more affected by the water conditions than others. Dick B talks about Hosokai and his breeding of Asagi despite his water conditions being less than ideal for that variety. I have had one of his Asagi in my pond for a year now and she is developing beautifully despite my water conditions. Incidentally, my pond is a converted swimming pool with no coating other than the original plaster. Brutuscz - When you mentioned a light color pond and it's effect on sumi I had to smile. I remember when I first started this pond up, it was basically a white interior. However, after about 1-2 months, the fish regained their original sumi. That was in 2002. Now that the system has matured, the walls are very dark in color, the water is crystal clear, the fish are doing well other than some having problems bringing up the Sumi or maintaining Hi. I have always been a believer in the theory about harder sandy bottomed mud ponds are better for sumi based fish such as showas/shiros. Now I understand why. I've always believed that, in theory, fish raised in the Isawa/Hiroshima area might do better in our harder water here as there water is supposedly much harder than that of the Niigata area. What do you guys think/know about this theory. Am I right or full of it? Mike

I think your theory is correct. If isawa and hiroshima both have their hardness high in their water. And they have been breeding koi for decades, or more. then that means the koi were bred to suite their water's hardness, it would suite us more since it is more towards our water's hardness, as opposed to niigata. Japan's national hardness is very low anyway.
WOW I am actually learning something from this thread!!!!! I am excited.

You also mentioned something about ligh color interiors in ponds. Could this have the affect on koi because, since the color of the pond is not black, as so many ponds are. Would this reflect the light coming into the pond, entire spectrum back to the koi. then the koi would then absorb the colors that they could. Utsuri being to absorb all of the color, for some of their body, excluding white. and so on. This theoretically to me would then increase melanin production as it would in a human, thus clogging whatever holds the pigmentation, thus increasing color/sumi development. and as the algae grows on the walls. this would start to absorb more light. then the sumi/color development would lag down again. and the only color that the koi could absorb other than the light coming from the sun would be green.

[dizzyfish]

http://www.japankoionline.com/conten...ofile/b06.html

[dizzyfish]

has to say about sumi. http://www.japankoionline.com/conten...ofile/b06.html

[koifishgirl]

HEY KOICZAR


I would love to see a picture of your swimming pool converted to a pond