Blogs FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
 


Welcome to Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine
Go Back   Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine > Hobbyist Koi Forums > General Koi Forum

General Koi Forum The main koi forum. Most posts should be made here.

Reply
 
LinkBack (4) Thread Tools Display Modes

Old 12-10-2006   #31 (permalink)
Daihonmei
 
MikeM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 5,209
When Utsuri come out of a muddy pond, the Sumi is sometimes not to be much seen. In clear water it "comes up" rapidly. In just a couple of hours it can look like an entirely different fish. A genetic root in camouflage? Maybe. A different process at work than what we think of as "Sumi development"...maybe.
MikeM is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006   #32 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bay Area, and Placerville
Posts: 1,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
When Utsuri come out of a muddy pond, the Sumi is sometimes not to be much seen. In clear water it "comes up" rapidly. In just a couple of hours it can look like an entirely different fish. A genetic root in camouflage? Maybe. A different process at work than what we think of as "Sumi development"...maybe.
Doesnt make sense. Koi are artificially created. It is not like there are shiro utsuri's swimming around being harrased by predators. A defensive thing like that doesnt make sense.
lildude is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006   #33 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
koiczar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,351
Thanks to all for your kind comments.

Dizzy

Y ou won't believe this when I tell you, but the conversion took two days. The site the pool/pond sits on was my original pond location which was built in 1977 when I moved into the house. Transported my koi from the old place in the live well of my bass boat!! But that's another story. When I contracted the pool builder I told him I wanted to incorporate the design into the existing landscape. They really exceeded my expectations. That waterfall was simply re-done to fit the new pond. I've also added a vortex tank ahead of the bio filter. Total water circulation is about once per hour between the two systems. I clean the Ultima 20000 weekly during the off season and 2-3 times a week during the warm months. The bio system vortex is cleaned at the same time and the bio is cleaned once or twice a year depending on slough-off build up. The pond currently houses 31 fish ranging in size from 12" to 28" and one to six years of age. If I get some time, I'll post a few fish pics. Most everything is still in the "developing" stages. I don't like to rush anything. They'll bloom (if they do) on their schedule not mine.

Mike
koiczar is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006   #34 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
Sangreaal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 1,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBear View Post
So many wise counselors
Thanks for rolling this one back out Mike. It is timely and informative. How many of you treating your water with Koi Clay (typically 10-12% silica) have improved sumi development after beginning treatment?
*raises hand tentatively* Ummm, I feed bentonite to my koi by dusting their pellets. Does that count? So there really isn't a day that they go without it to see and compare sumi development. I do know this, though--I muddied up my QT with bentonite recently and my baby utsuri canary koi both faded out entirely--not a smudge of sumi left on them anywhere. Happened overnight.

Still, this is what my crowd looks like in cold water and bentonited:


...and my showas have sumi just bubbling to the top now--here's my Ogata gr showa today:


So speaking of sumi development--what kind of sumi would this be called? Is it showa or sanke or traditional or some Japanese name I don't know yet?

Marie
__________________
Marie

http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/koi-gr...wout-form.html

"Every artist dips his brush in his own soul, and
paints his own nature into his pictures."
--Henry Ward Beecher
Sangreaal is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006   #35 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
koifishgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,156
Hey Marie,
It is a kin gin rin showa just remember that sanke dont have sumi in there heads and the showa is a pretty little one.


I would give anything if I could take pictures of koi like that I have took many and not one will turn out good. I can't figure out what Im doing wrong. I dont think it is my camera as it is a good one, its got to be the operator
koifishgirl is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006   #36 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bay Area, and Placerville
Posts: 1,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sangreaal View Post
*raises hand tentatively* Ummm, I feed bentonite to my koi by dusting their pellets. Does that count? So there really isn't a day that they go without it to see and compare sumi development. I do know this, though--I muddied up my QT with bentonite recently and my baby utsuri canary koi both faded out entirely--not a smudge of sumi left on them anywhere. Happened overnight.

Still, this is what my crowd looks like in cold water and bentonited:


...and my showas have sumi just bubbling to the top now--here's my Ogata gr showa today:


So speaking of sumi development--what kind of sumi would this be called? Is it showa or sanke or traditional or some Japanese name I don't know yet?

Marie
Who are the breeders of the showa? I like your Longfin Orenji. They look similar to my matsunosuke showa, a lil bit.
lildude is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006   #37 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
Sangreaal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 1,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by koifishgirl View Post
Hey Marie,
It is a kin gin rin showa just remember that sanke dont have sumi in there heads and the showa is a pretty little one.


I would give anything if I could take pictures of koi like that I have took many and not one will turn out good. I can't figure out what Im doing wrong. I dont think it is my camera as it is a good one, its got to be the operator
*nodnod* Ayup, that's what she be alrightie, but I mean the type of sumi, not the type of koi. I'm a student of sumi right now........and what I'm getting in my pond is really deep and inky. The kumonryu (or matsukawabake, I'm not clear on that either) is changing much slower than the showas, and the black seems like a whole different sort--kinda superficial, in that it is definately black, but with no depth to it like the showas.

A polarizing filter does wonders for taking pics of koi--cuts the glare and helps the camera focus. If you have an action setting on your camera, use it, not the automatic setting. Too slow. And always use a flash, even in daylight.

Believe me, alot of mine are out of focus since I'm just getting used to the new camera (Kodak Z650) and trying all the settings. Lots and lots of bloopers...*S*

Marie
Sangreaal is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006   #38 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
Sangreaal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 1,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by lildude View Post
Who are the breeders of the showa? I like your Longfin Orenji. They look similar to my matsunosuke showa, a lil bit.
Ogata is the breeder of the kgr showa and the other is from Sakai.
Sangreaal is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006   #39 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bay Area, and Placerville
Posts: 1,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sangreaal View Post
Ogata is the breeder of the kgr showa and the other is from Sakai.
Sakai of Isawa? Which one is from Sakai? I am guessing the left one because of the similarities I see in your Showa Shiroji to mine.

By the way, that kohaku really has a pattern that clicks with me. That is the 2nd of 2 that has clicked to me.
lildude is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006   #40 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
Sangreaal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 1,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by lildude View Post
Sakai of Isawa? Which one is from Sakai? I am guessing the left one because of the similarities I see in your Showa Shiroji to mine.

The big one is Ogata, the little one is Sakai of Hiroshima. taken a month ago (check out the change in sumi):


By the way, that kohaku really has a pattern that clicks with me. That is the 2nd of 2 that has clicked to me.
Here's another pic of Songen, my SJK kohak:


With a gh of 400, a ph of 7.5, bentonite supplementation, and cold water, the whites are brighter than ever and the hi strong and deep. Now we wait to see if any shimis pop up to match that great sumi emerging in the rest of the pond...

Marie
Sangreaal is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/general-koi-forum/1543-nurturing-sumi.html
Posted By For Type Date
My koi that I got from Majestic Koi - Koiphen.com This thread Refback 09-30-2008 08:04 AM
My koi that I got from Majestic Koi - Koiphen.com This thread Refback 09-30-2008 04:19 AM
My koi that I got from Majestic Koi - Koiphen.com This thread Refback 09-30-2008 04:14 AM
My koi that I got from Majestic Koi - Koiphen.com This thread Refback 09-30-2008 04:08 AM

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Baby Sumi MikeM General Koi Forum 9 12-25-2007 06:54 AM
Sumi of sanke/showa mynamy1 General Koi Forum 4 04-06-2007 01:59 PM
Will the sumi ever come back up? KoiCCAPW General Koi Forum 13 12-08-2006 02:55 AM
Shiro Utsuri Gallagher General Koi Forum 11 10-13-2005 11:52 AM
Sumi development - Back to Front erwinsan General Koi Forum 13 02-23-2005 03:00 PM



©2008 Koi-Bito Magazine