Nurturing Sumi

[Sangreaal]

Here's a close study of emerging sumi on a kumonryu/matsukawabake type fish:



Notice he isn't truly black and white...

[Russell Peters]

Hi Marie,

If the smaller Showa is from us, then it is Sakai of Isawa.

Russ

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by Russell Peters Hi Marie, If the smaller Showa is from us, then it is Sakai of Isawa. Russ

Why yes it is, Russ, and thank you. I sit corrected.

The little showa is from Sakai of Isawa, not Hiroshima. I think it's a real cutie pie even though it lacks hi on it's face. Something about the helmet effect that made it endearing...


M

[lildude]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sangreaal Why yes it is, Russ, and thank you. I sit corrected. The little showa is from Sakai of Isawa, not Hiroshima. I think it's a real cutie pie even though it lacks hi on it's face. Something about the helmet effect that made it endearing... M

I knew it looked similar to mine. Mine has the same - Ai-sumi on it.

[PapaBear]

Quote: Originally Posted by lildude Doesnt make sense. Koi are artificially created. It is not like there are shiro utsuri's swimming around being harrased by predators. A defensive thing like that doesnt make sense.

"Koi" may be the result of human intervention, but their genetic roots are ancient. Many wild creatures have the ability to camoflage themselves under different environmental conditions. Among Koi varieties it may be that the DNA strands that produce Utsuri, Matsukawabaki, Kumonryu, Chagoi, Ochiba, etc... are still linked to a wild "chameleon" response to light and environment while others ie Kohaku, Kikisui, Sanke, Hariwake... being brightly colored fish have had that DNA strand bred out. Various traits are gained or lost as a matter of course in selective breeding programs in plants and animals.

[Birdman]

Just found the pictures of your pond Mike. Absolutely beautiful. I love the shape, and the landscaping. The big tree over the waterfall is very nice. You can be very proud of what you have done.

[dizzyfish]

Quote: Originally Posted by PapaBear "Koi" may be the result of human intervention, but their genetic roots are ancient. Many wild creatures have the ability to camoflage themselves under different environmental conditions. Among Koi varieties it may be that the DNA strands that produce Utsuri, Matsukawabaki, Kumonryu, Chagoi, Ochiba, etc... are still linked to a wild "chameleon" response to light and environment while others ie Kohaku, Kikisui, Sanke, Hariwake... being brightly colored fish have had that DNA strand bred out. Various traits are gained or lost as a matter of course in selective breeding programs in plants and animals.

Larry,
I agree with what you are saying. Fish have color for at least two reasons: The first is to help them blend in and hide from predators. The second is used to attract a mate. Many fish including wild carp will change color as part of a pre-spawning ritual. It is often the male who assumes brighter than normal color in an attempt to attract females. You should see the difference between some of the male cichlids when in breeding color compared to normal colors.(i.e. firemouths) Even the drab dace minnows get pretty when spawning. Some fish have the ability to turn off much of their color at night. Many saltwater fish for example will look very washed-out if the light is turned on suddenly after keeping them in darkness. In can take a couple of minutes for normal color to return. They can also wash-out when stressed.

It would be interesting to have sumi analized for its chemical content. Kodama says sumi is a protective coating. It could also be a manifestation of a koi from a certain lineage, trying to make itself recognizable to the opposite sex.
Mitch

[lildude]

Quote: Originally Posted by PapaBear "Koi" may be the result of human intervention, but their genetic roots are ancient. Many wild creatures have the ability to camoflage themselves under different environmental conditions. Among Koi varieties it may be that the DNA strands that produce Utsuri, Matsukawabaki, Kumonryu, Chagoi, Ochiba, etc... are still linked to a wild "chameleon" response to light and environment while others ie Kohaku, Kikisui, Sanke, Hariwake... being brightly colored fish have had that DNA strand bred out. Various traits are gained or lost as a matter of course in selective breeding programs in plants and animals.

Oh!!.....
So even if the koi is unaturally created, it still gets the ancient genes in which its ancestors had in this case i would think carp. Giving the gene to say change color from black to white in a kumonryu.

Is that what you are kind of saying?

[MikeM]

All lifeforms are simply a re-arrangement of the genes that preceded.

[MikeM]

Bringing up this old thread to post thoughts on Sumi in Showa in an article by Kenichi Kizawa that appeared in a 1983 issue of Rinko. It should be kept in mind that the following was written a quarter century ago.

"Before the Kobayashi Showa was bred, the Showa's Hi and white had been of undesirable quality. It was epock-making [sic] to have bred it with fine Kohakus' blood mixed. ...

"Sumi is the most important in the Showa, but it has degenerated owing to the crossbreed with the Kohaku.

"There are two types of Sumi in the Showa. One is of Asagi lineage, thick and bluish. The Kobayashi Showa has taken this Sumi.

"The other is of the Utsuri lineage, reddish-black. This type is stable, but not very fine quality. It does not show as spots.

***

"Clearly dark Sumi is always the best. In general most Showas have uneven Sumi. It is not very stable either. The edges of Sumi are not very sharp. Especially large Showas do not show clear edges.

***

"The shade of Sumi has deep relationship with the quality. Fine Sumi is thick, shiny, and bluish black. It will look impressive against snow-white skin and bright Hi. Unfortunately Sumi of the Showa is generally unstable.

"The shade of bad Sumi is called 'mud-Sumi' whose color is not beautiful and which looks thin. Such Sumi has blurred edges, and easily fades in the bright sunlight. For example, a Showa with dark Sumi in a pond sometimes loses its Sumi in a container of a show.... The quality of water and the change of water temperature may deteriorate Sumi. ... High water temperature (over 20C) fades Sumi, but low temperature may recover it. Sumi of fine quality does not easily change according to the temperature. Sumi of bad quality sometimes appears as spots which will not easily disappear in male koi but which will disappear owing to the condition or the water quality in female koi.

"To improve Hi in Showas the crossbreeding with Kohakus has been recommended, and as a result Sumi has somewhat degenerated. Some Showas have white abdomens, and some have white pectoral fins without blacl joints. They are inevitable results in Showa's improvement.

***

Originally the Showa's basic color is black, but recent improvement has been changing it to white. Therefore the requirement for the white is severer than before. It should be snow white now. *** The trouble is that there are some Showas which look similar to Sankes. The Showas should keep their characteristics so far as the classification of koi exists."

________


I find these points interesting as a snapshot from about 25 years ago. And, so much of the discussion of Showa today is a repetition of Kizawa's little summary.