can anyone identify this fish

[Roy]

please can anyone tell me what class of koi? this is, it is dark velvety grey with huge scales all over, the scales have a brown sheen when out of the water, it is 44cm long

[matt]

Wow! What an amazing speciman. Looks like some kind of pre-historic carp.

It looks like the very large scales are mirror scales, as seen on some doitsu. Yet it is so heavily mirrored that they cover the entire body.

I have never seen a fish just like this before. Do you own it?

My impulse to classify it would be Mirror scaled magoi. Maybe cha goi but it is so dark it seems closer to a wild carp.

[Roy]

hi Matt thank you, i do own it. I have seen mirror carp and common carp common carp have smaller scales like normal koi and mirror carp have heavy scales above the lateral line and are very reflective in the water though i am begining to think it might be related to a mirror carp but i have not found any pictures that i could compare it to, here is another photo showing some missing scales on its right flank the red is a reflection.

[James P]

Doitsu magoi- kawarimono class.

[elunned]

There are four kinds of scalation (and two sets of genes involved). Wagoi are normal-scaled koi while the other three varieties are all classified as doitsu. The two genes control scale size and scale placement. Leather carp have almost no scales; there are usually just a single line along each side of the dorsal fin. The most common/typical doitsu have a single line of scales all along the dorsal line (not just beside the dorsal fin) and also a row of scales along the lateral line. Armored or mirror scale koi have large scales in an irregular pattern. Number and placement of scales is highly variable. Your koi would seem to be an armour-scaled magoi.

[Roy]

Hi thank you JR,and thank you Lynne! you certainly seem to know your fish, I obviously have a lot to learn apart from japanese.
Thanks again.