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Old 09-16-2004   #11 (permalink)
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David: You like that Showa, don't you? The Kohaku has good body, good beni, etc etc., but the Showa has spark to it. My appreciation of Kohaku is in much need of improvement. A great pattern will grab me, but tough to get excited over plain red on white. [Slings, arrows & rotten veggies cascade over me from all directions!] But, you are interested in showing. The judges have all been taught to look for body form and thick red, and all are taught that the true awareness is found in Kohaku. The secret rites of passage, contemplating universal oneness in the form of a grasshopper spitting brown juice ... It is part of a package. "Koi Truth" exists in Kohaku, and if one does not accept that, then that person has not received "Koi Truth". Judges want to believe they have received, or are receiving, "Koi Truth", so they want to believe in Kohaku. Much easier to convince a person who wants to believe. [Are my biases showing?] So, for show ... go for the Kohaku.

For love, it's the Showa .... but I'm fascinated by even ugly Showa! [Corerction. There are no ugly Showa. Only ones whose time on Earth ended before they finished developing.]

It can be amazing what photos do. In the first picture of the Showa the individual scales of the Hi plate along the dorsal are clearly visible, raising concern of all the Hi fading ... this is a 3 yr. 18" fish, so "stretched Hi" from fast growth is not what I'd expect to see. Makes one think of fading, particularly with the fading in front of the dorsal. The pic most recently posted does not show the individual scales so clearly. Looks rather thick from dorsal back, as BScott suggests. Don't know which impression is the more accurate. But, the Hi on the head looks pretty good to me. I do not think she will become a shiro utsuri. ......... Hmmmmm???

It is late in the season & dealers do not want to hold inventory much longer. A new harvest starts in just weeks. Only people heating all winter will be buying, and most of them already spent their budget for the year. You are willing & able to buy now, so you have more negotiating strength now than 2 weeks ago. And in another couple of weeks, you'll have even more. With that in mind, there's a chance the dealer has a photo from when the Showa was selected or when it arrived, and I suspect the Hi extended 2/3 of the way toward the head at that time. Ask if they have their photo from when it arrived. If so, check it out. If you are still interested, and ready to make your own judgment whether BScott is right in his guess, then offer half the asking price. If they say no, walk out. If the Showa is there still in 2 weeks, repeat your offer. At half the asking price, I think it is worth the risk IF you really love it. Just ask yourself: Would you still want the Showa if the blurry Hi fades, except for 3 scales that stay red like little pimples on her back? She would not do so well in a competitive show, but the Showa is for love, not show. And at that price, you're not out so much. On the other hand, if BScott is right, you've got quite a bargain IMHO, and she is otherwise rather finished at just 18". She could do well in smaller sizes.

P.S. Would you have room for both if 1/3 off for the 2? That would be like buying the Kohaku with the Showa thrown in for free ... that would take all your worry out of the mix. Show the Kohaku & enjoy the Showa without guilt. The wife & the mistress??
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Old 09-16-2004   #12 (permalink)
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Location: Ojiya, Niigata, Japan
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I'd be concerned with the showa's beni given the breeder that it's from!

IMHO not a good sign for the future of the koi and would be interested to know what that was like say 6 months back, my betting is that it was quite probably solid!

Mark
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Old 09-16-2004   #13 (permalink)
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No question. The kohaku.

Mike Pfeffer
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Old 09-17-2004   #14 (permalink)
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Id go for the kohaku if the red on the shoulder of the showa had not been there than I would have gone for that as I love showas the kohaku looks lke it will be a big koi.

rick
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Old 09-17-2004   #15 (permalink)
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Two very beautiful koi there! I am a great lover of Showa probably my favorite variety,but I would be in tears if that had been at my local dealers,reason???? It almost resembles that perfect Showa in my minds eye that I have been after for nearly five years,but the Hi looks to be on the way out?!?! Bloody shame!
So the Kohaku it is..... A great specimen of a fish, period.
And also a damn fine price too.

Col 8)
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Old 09-17-2004   #16 (permalink)
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If a knowledgable visitor came to look at my pond, I would like for them to see that kohaku swim up. If I paused to enjoy my own pond for a moment, I would like to see that showa swim up. The kohaku could win at a show. The showa seems a bit small and unconventional, but I'm in love.
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Old 09-17-2004   #17 (permalink)
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hi david have to agrea with others about the showa, if you could as mark suggest get a photo of what it was like 6months to a year ago and compare the 2 photos.

the kohaku is a good one and a big girl that could inprove with some more size on latter.
this kohaku has entered its first show this year at the neks where it was placed 3rd in size 4.

hope this helps
paul
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