Norway

[Vogata]

To Dick and all others out there her are the start from Norway. Thought we would start in the hard end and ease or way down. The following date is from a check point monitored weekly by the water authorities, stately her in Norway. This is compiled of data from week 01-2004 through out 46-2004.



Please feel free to comment in any way you see fit.

[Vogata]

Is presently trying too put something together on temperatures, but it hasn’t gone that well yet. Is like tons off data and a needle’s eye to put it out on.



We are located in the warmer regions her in Norway. Also some off those that actually have daylight in the winter. We will at the darkest have seven hours off sun if not clouded, witch would bee no big surprise.



The outdoor pond has just 2” ice at the moment and snow fill at present 2-5”. All in all just as predicted. Its at them moment melting all around, this evening its just around -2°C.

In this part of Norway we have the last 2 weeks been down at –16° and up at +7°C. We have had snow that at its best was over 20” and bare ground toped off with some rainfalls off biblical proportions. Just hours in length but man how the flow everything when there’s frost in the ground.



This is for us quit normal. If we travel just a hour further north things changes dramatically and given another hour. It has been stabile temperatures below –5°C for quit some time now. There we find snow starting to get nice “Aspen” style and they are not bothered with this untimely role coaster temperature. In fact we welcome some snow its nothing worse than going bellow 0°C with out it.

Normal winter problem her in Norway is broken water pipes. To avoid freezing they are never any higher than 1.6 m down I the ground. In our local setting, main at 2.8m and at highest 2.2m before entering in under houses. Last winter with our normal lack off snow (isolation) two off our neighbours got it. They had both forgotten the basis trickle principal. Its like when bellow –20° and no snow please don’t turn off the water (completely) after using it….





Well if somebody is reading this please comment or ask we will skip in from time to time and see if there is anything that you all what to know about us or our country.

[Bancherd]

Vogata:

I was speechless! With that kind of temperature, how much does an average koi grow in a year?

Do you have geothermal heating? I expect most of water to come from snowmelt, What about water being soft?

[dick benbow]

Gee, and i thought i had problems. How interesting! I'd like to hear more about how you keep your koi going! I'm so glad you posted! Good stuff!

[MikeM]

Vogata: Your conditions are so different from mine that I do not know where to start asking questions! We had a cool spell a couple of nights ago. It got down to 52F. I turned off the waterfall so the koi would not get a chill! Seems so silly in comparison.

A question does come to mind: Are there ordinary wild carp in any of the rivers?

[Sanke56]

I also raise koi in a cold climate. We live on a little pond 80 ac and we have been skating on it for several weeks over 8 in of ice. We just came back from Seattle on the weekend I could certainly keep nice koi outside there.I bring my koi inside for the winter so the outside growing season is short. They are in 60 degree water now and I do cool them to 50 if we go away for longer times. I have wintered outside before but it is too risky. We can get 3 feet of ice on our lakes. Lots of people do winter koi in their outside ponds here they use a stock water heater and aeration usually and things do work out usually. The word I don't like is usually and it it impossible to do something if the system fails think of all that ice to move. I have been keeping koi for 20 years here maybe more.

[Vogata]

Bancherd

Average growth well there’s a hard one especially when you consider some of the last treads one this BB. Will not try to fool anybody in to thinking we are keepers off any kind off extreme Jumbos what so ever. We are as most out there slowly moving up the ladder. Will post some numbers one this when I get home later this evening, think we have some reliable and consistent data one the last purchase in February 2003 up till present. Before this both blood lines and documentation where not at all what it should have been. Hope you on your side of the world will come home to more data



Melting snow, hmm. Well if you by this mean that we don’t pump it up your quit right. It does pass to an immense mass off different sediments before reaching the end users. Her follows a line we didn’t get with us through translation

Calcium mg Ca/l

Guidelines 15 – 25

Measured max 20

Measured min 13

Middle 16,23

A German HD of max 2.8 min 1.82 and average 2.24 and yes a bit one the soft side. Please do correct us we are not to heavy in on the chemistry side of things. What kind off trouble dose the enlightened ones (chemical wise) feel that this should give us?



dick benbow

Patience please its coming…….



MikeM

52 F that would be cosy 11°C wouldn’t it. Well her we will have tap water below that normally for 7-8 months each year. During the really cold season, with in fact tends to move about quit a lot, tap water comes at ~38F. Normally this would bee a 3-4 months thing but never ever in one solid stretch. For us –5F is a normal and expected annual event how far below this well that’s what we all awaits from year to year. A friend of ours in Alta had –76F a couple of years back, but our pond has never seen that. We have more than occasionally seen -22F but luckily not for many weeks in a stretch.



Ordinary Carp well that all depends on what you mean. Our rivers streams and surrounding sea is as far as the rest of the world means to full of fish. Carps are also a new but stabilised species her and surrounded by other carp family members, broadly represented in both rivers and streams. All including the wild carp are much more adapt to our climate than our bellowed Nishikigoi. Se link for more information http://www.environment.no/templates/PageWithRightListing____2250.aspx



Sanke56

If I’m correct that would bee 10-15.5°C? We prefer to keep them higher but that’s the story Dick is waiting for. As you point out we are talking about usually. Been there got the t-shirt. Lost everything. Water froze below the 3 feet (1 m) and pump in/outlet froze. Heater and air at –25 to –30 was not a fair match at all. We worked three persons all night just to understand that there where no way. At the end off the fourth day it was all over. Still many fellow hobbyists her in Norway does as we did and we try as hard as possible to stir them to safer waters.

Secondly we will point out that the long-time effect on Nishikigoi kept outside (often doubled with cold short summers or as we call them green winters) is a rather pore immune system. After switching side we have healthier Nishikigoi than ever before. The same phenomena occurs all places where we can convince friends to take control over temperature.





As a hole other topic this is link that can show you some pictures of Norway please enjoy. http://www.norphoto.com/r/eng3453.php

[Sanke56]

I haven't seen any wild carp this far north but they do exist in the US in Washington. I saw some in the snake river on a fish ladder once which flows into the Columbia river in Oregon. I think they may be introduced into those waters. I don't think they survive in the wild this far noth. Some people have introduced specialized carp inot some dugouts and irrigation systems here to control algae both the grass carp and the silver carp these introductions must be confirmed triploid and are sterile. They winter as long as they have enough oxygen and do grow quite large here they only feed above 50F.

[Vogata]

How far north are you located? Her are our location. 59n17, 11e07, Norway. If you follow this link you will find that Cyprinus carpio and Carassius auratus are both reckoned by Norwegian wildlife authorities to be a new and permanent guest off ours. http://www.environment.no/templates/PageWithRightListing____2250.aspx

This is to our knowledge accurate as far north as just below Trondheim 63n25, 10e25, Norway and mostly on the eastern side off the mountains (low land bordering too Sweden). This is naturally not a issue when we get up higher and into any off our mountains (most off Norway any way). Around Sarpsborg they multiply and prospered all on their own in competition with other freshwater fish.

[MikeM]

The hardiness of the species never fails to amaze.