Bottom Drain Elevation? - Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine

Akai-San · 01-06-2005

Believe it or not...my planning effort is near complete...except that while drawing my pond sections, I came across a question regarding the gravity flow of water and the elevation of my bottom drains in relation to drain invert height. It appears that my bottom drains are lower than my flush-out piping by at least 24 inches. That means I will not be able to entirely drain my pond solely by the use of gravity and a drain valve. I would have to pump that extra water out with my pump system. Is this o.k? How do you drain a pond that is solely dug into the ground, I would guess the pumps are the only way. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I will post my first pond plans for some constructive criticism soon. Thanks

Nishi8 · 01-06-2005

.............................

MikeM · 01-06-2005

In my planning for my new pond, there is a by-pass line to a pump so the pond can be fully emptied. Everything is easier if you can place your pond at the top of a hill!

B.Scott · 01-07-2005

Why get all complicated? Just let it drain as far as it will go and then toss a sump pump witha hose attached that runs to the drain someplace. Those pumps are dirt cheap and though they aren't very economical with electricty, you would only need it for a couple of hours before the pond was completely empty.

B.Scott

Vogata · 01-07-2005

The setup you described is probably one off the fee really functioning safety system against problem number 1.

The only thing that has stopped me from this cardinal error is to this day the need for mechanical/physical alteration that is not associated with any off the normal maintenance around the Nishikigoi.

If it’s possible with low point draining I often construct myself off this as soon as possible. Remember Murphy’s Law!

Bob Hart · 01-07-2005

Akai-San,

I have the same problem, as I guess do many people. I've never had to drain the pond entirely, but if I did I'd do what Scott suggests.

OK look on the positive side, should you even have a break in a pipe, or pumping problems, your pond will never empty!

B.Scott · 01-07-2005

Uhm... unless it breaks near the bottom of the pond!

Akai-San · 01-07-2005

Thanks a bunch, you have all been a great help and support group for this newbie-san. Is it still possible to run a pond pump to divert the remaining water to drain pipes if ever had too drain the pond for major repairs?

Just thinking about it again, how much is water around the world these days? My monthly water and sewer bill runs about $25-$30/month right now (NO POND). Anybody care to share the their water charges?

dick benbow · 01-07-2005

Akai-san
Close as i can figure for my koi it costs me around $40.00 amonth for water alone.
I drain everything once or twice a day for vortexes and have a constant 24/7 trickle that overflows to waste.
That's alot for 4 koi but I have no problems and if it ain't brke I don't have to fix it. Hey " it's only money"!.....

you'll probably spend that much on huli-huli chicken barbeques around the pond when you build it!

MikeM · 01-07-2005

There is quite a bit of variation in central Florida, depending on the utility serving a local area and extent to which saltwater intrusion along coastal areas requires use of desalinization or long distance transmission. In Orlando, we sit over the Floridan Aquifer, an enormous freshwater "river" slowly flowing thru the pervious rock substrate deep below. It is one of the purest sources of freshwater in North America. ..... So, the water is relatively cheap compared to other areas of the state, but, nonetheless, there is a sliding scale of charges to discourage heavy water use. The first 3,000 gallons per month is $0.801 per thousand gals. The next 12,000 gals is $1.071 per thousand. The next 15,000 gals is $1.881 per thousand. Usage over 30,000 gals per month is $2.931 per thousand. So, 60,000 gals would cost approx $160. The larger charge is the sewer tax on water discharged into the sewer system.It is about double the cost of the water, so that $160 would become more nearly $480. But, no sewer tax applies if the water is used to irrigate and separately metered on an irrigation line. It costs a bit to acquire a separate irrigation meter, but the cost is quickly recouped.

Bottom line: You could do a 10% daily water change on a 20,000 pond for about $5 per day, if the waste water is used to irrigate the garden.

Or, a 50% weekly water change on a 5,000 gal pond for less than $15 per month.

01-06-2005	#1 (permalink)
Akai-San Tategoi Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kanagawa, Tokyo, Japan Posts: 336	Bottom Drain Elevation? Believe it or not...my planning effort is near complete...except that while drawing my pond sections, I came across a question regarding the gravity flow of water and the elevation of my bottom drains in relation to drain invert height. It appears that my bottom drains are lower than my flush-out piping by at least 24 inches. That means I will not be able to entirely drain my pond solely by the use of gravity and a drain valve. I would have to pump that extra water out with my pump system. Is this o.k? How do you drain a pond that is solely dug into the ground, I would guess the pumps are the only way. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I will post my first pond plans for some constructive criticism soon. Thanks __________________ Aloha & Mahalo, *Hawaiian In Japan* http://hawaiinishikigoi.tripod.com/

01-07-2005	#5 (permalink)
Vogata Nisai Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Sarpsborg - Norway Posts: 149	Agree with Scott + The setup you described is probably one off the fee really functioning safety system against problem number 1. The only thing that has stopped me from this cardinal error is to this day the need for mechanical/physical alteration that is not associated with any off the normal maintenance around the Nishikigoi. If it’s possible with low point draining I often construct myself off this as soon as possible. Remember Murphy’s Law!

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01-06-2005	#2 (permalink)
Nishi8 Tosai Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43	.............................

01-06-2005	#3 (permalink)
MikeM Honmei Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 4,655	In my planning for my new pond, there is a by-pass line to a pump so the pond can be fully emptied. Everything is easier if you can place your pond at the top of a hill!

01-07-2005	#4 (permalink)
B.Scott Jumbo Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Holland Posts: 822	Why get all complicated? Just let it drain as far as it will go and then toss a sump pump witha hose attached that runs to the drain someplace. Those pumps are dirt cheap and though they aren't very economical with electricty, you would only need it for a couple of hours before the pond was completely empty. B.Scott

01-07-2005	#6 (permalink)
Bob Hart Sansai Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Medway, Kent, England Posts: 269	Akai-San, I have the same problem, as I guess do many people. I've never had to drain the pond entirely, but if I did I'd do what Scott suggests. OK look on the positive side, should you even have a break in a pipe, or pumping problems, your pond will never empty!

01-07-2005	#7 (permalink)
B.Scott Jumbo Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Holland Posts: 822	Uhm... unless it breaks near the bottom of the pond!

01-07-2005	#8 (permalink)
Akai-San Tategoi Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kanagawa, Tokyo, Japan Posts: 336	Thanks a bunch, you have all been a great help and support group for this newbie-san. Is it still possible to run a pond pump to divert the remaining water to drain pipes if ever had too drain the pond for major repairs? Just thinking about it again, how much is water around the world these days? My monthly water and sewer bill runs about $25-$30/month right now (NO POND). Anybody care to share the their water charges?

01-07-2005	#9 (permalink)
dick benbow Honmei Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 4,164	Akai-san Close as i can figure for my koi it costs me around $40.00 amonth for water alone. I drain everything once or twice a day for vortexes and have a constant 24/7 trickle that overflows to waste. That's alot for 4 koi but I have no problems and if it ain't brke I don't have to fix it. Hey " it's only money"!..... you'll probably spend that much on huli-huli chicken barbeques around the pond when you build it!

01-07-2005	#10 (permalink)
MikeM Honmei Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 4,655	There is quite a bit of variation in central Florida, depending on the utility serving a local area and extent to which saltwater intrusion along coastal areas requires use of desalinization or long distance transmission. In Orlando, we sit over the Floridan Aquifer, an enormous freshwater "river" slowly flowing thru the pervious rock substrate deep below. It is one of the purest sources of freshwater in North America. ..... So, the water is relatively cheap compared to other areas of the state, but, nonetheless, there is a sliding scale of charges to discourage heavy water use. The first 3,000 gallons per month is $0.801 per thousand gals. The next 12,000 gals is $1.071 per thousand. The next 15,000 gals is $1.881 per thousand. Usage over 30,000 gals per month is $2.931 per thousand. So, 60,000 gals would cost approx $160. The larger charge is the sewer tax on water discharged into the sewer system.It is about double the cost of the water, so that $160 would become more nearly $480. But, no sewer tax applies if the water is used to irrigate and separately metered on an irrigation line. It costs a bit to acquire a separate irrigation meter, but the cost is quickly recouped. Bottom line: You could do a 10% daily water change on a 20,000 pond for about $5 per day, if the waste water is used to irrigate the garden. Or, a 50% weekly water change on a 5,000 gal pond for less than $15 per month.