Kohaku Babies. Advice on culling needed

[dick benbow]

See the scallopy full scale edges on #1. I don't trust the beni on that koi. I think in a year or two it will start to break up. Actually the one I thought had too small a pattern was #7. When that koi gets 14-15 inches the pattern will tend to ride up way past the lateral line as the body fills in. to me that doesn't achor the pattern. In the shoulder area ,I like to see a red patch that looks heavy on a tosai and goes below the lateral line to give it stability as the chest of the koi becomes barrel- like .This gives a dynamic to the pattern as an anchor. I have seen smaller koi catch up with bigger koi at 4 and 5 so i don't discard smaller ones that have a nice pattern and a quality thick beni on their very first year.

Sakai-san gave me a male tosai for my birthday one year from Rose. He was a simple two step and had that full scalloped pattern. His second year he took tate-goi award at the seattle show and everyone raved about him. He had a female body and looked to die for. A young hobbyists that did some favors for me building some trickle towers only wanted that koi for all his work and material cost. so i gave it to him. Within the month from my water to his, the koi went shiro muji! I forget what the japanese term for that scalloped look is
but it may mean trouble.

[dtbh]

Thanks guys for the very interesting and informative inputs.

I have decided to keep all seven, at least for the time being, so that we can follow what will be the outcome of the various "predictions". Meanwhile I can stop buying kois.....

I note we have not come to a conclusion as to what, in terms of size and growth rate, to keep at so early an age (they are only 4+months). We all know for a fact that most of the fries will be males but, like Dick illustrated with his Sakai male, that shouldn't be a concern esp so if these males can grow and have a body conformation like a female. Ever seen Kato-san's jumbo kohaku male (90 Bu)? I suppose with this in mind we should still concentrate on the fast growers with good beni (and with some semblance of a pattern).

Thanks again guys.

[MikeM]

I'm looking forward to seeing photos of them at 12 months. ....Almost as much fun as raising them myself!

[MikeM]

P.S. I'll bet on the stubby one with the yellowish head and the Hi beauty mark by her left nostril.(#4?)

[dtbh]

Will definitely keep you guys posted in the next few months.

My bet is on #2,3 and 5 in that order.

Attached are the parents. Please note a "deformity" on the left of the Sakai Rose (picture taken pre-spawning). I have been told that it could be eggs but it only marginally improved after spawning. I hope it is still due to eggs which had not been fully released as I removed the parents way too early on the day of the spawning (7.30am). What do you guys think?

Cheers.

[soelistyo]

Dr Teh,
how big is your pond, may i ask? i was told by a couple of dealers, very large koi may develop a bent back if kept in small pond. i have a large soragoi (90cm) with the same problem in my small pond (only 17T, sadly). i thought it may be eggs, but Sakai dealer told me the pond is too small for that size of fish. if i remember correctly, your pond is like 40 T without filter? if so, then it probably defeats the dealer's theory.

[dtbh]

Dear soelistyo

Frankly I don't have any experience on this topic of bent backs in koi (?except for this one). I suppose if there is any deformity of the spine one can expect to see it by looking at the spine itself. In my Rose there is none and that made me to think that it is a soft tissue "deformity".

Since we are on this topic of bent backs, I would like to know, if small ponds ever cause them, in what plane does in occur? Vertical or horizontal with respect to the horizontal plane of the fish? I would presume it to be vertical (due to gravity?) and it would be great if someone can enlightened us on this.

Thanks.

[dick benbow]

I really like the beni on the female. Stable, thick, uniform thru-out.

[swordfish]

Quote: Originally Posted by soelistyo Dr Teh,

Quote: Originally Posted by soelistyo how big is your pond, may i ask? i was told by a couple of dealers, very large koi may develop a bent back if kept in small pond. i have a large soragoi (90cm) with the same problem in my small pond (only 17T, sadly). i thought it may be eggs, but Sakai dealer told me the pond is too small for that size of fish. if i remember correctly, your pond is like 40 T without filter? if so, then it probably defeats the dealer's theory.

Soelistyo, quite a few months back I asked a local Japanese hobbyist by the name of Tokunaga san(wonder anybody else know him) the same question about jumbo koi may develop bent back if keep in a small pond. He told me this is nonsense. Bent back could be due to skeketon structure,genetic, some chemical in our city water which we use for our pond,lack of excercise or other reason. If a particular koi is going to develop a bent back,you'll most probably notice the symptom when your koi is 70bu or even earlier.
Not sure if this is true but he keep 3 jumbo kohaku,83cm & 86cm,1 jumbo sanke,86cm,1 68cm yamabuki in his 5000gal pond without any problem.

SF

[gregbickal]

This thread was excellent reading !!