Potential Sumi Development in Showa

[Maurice]

Next up comes weak hi on showa, although we move away from sumi, it has been mentioned in this thread.

With this sort of weak colour, the hi plate is not a consistent shade of red, it shows light and dark shades. Often with pale whole scales.


And another. Only a small area, but a demerit on a show koi.

Maurice.

[Maurice]

Now to quality sumi on traditional showa. Although maybe this shows as Nabe sumi (flat, not shinny), remember this is traditional showa and not modern, but it's solid black on white ground. Not completely filled in yet, but the type of sumi is different to those posted above.

Now a close up of another. If you look closely, you will see the outline of the kiwa on the hi plate , just along the edge of the sumi line. Even though this is good thick sumi, it still shows a little stronger when on top of red.

Maurice.

[Dan Blatt]

Maurice...nice photos and explanation. On the photo of the first showa you bought in 2002....my reply to your friend is ....so. A very attractive showa..the kage sumi on the white is pleasing to me anyway. I know what the exercise and point is but still like it's looks for what it's worth.

[Dan Blatt]

Also Mike...understand what you mean now relevant to a past post on my tosai kindai showa. From what you can see of the sumi on the white, does any appear to be coming from the root as you mentioned ealier? Thanks

[Maurice]

In this shot, sumi can be seen coming from the root of a few scales. Compare with kage sumi which is never coming.

Maurice.

[Mike Snaden]

Thanks Maurice!

I never said I didn't have any Koi with poor Sumi, I said I didn't have any pics of Showa with poor Sumi! I do have a great example of what to expect from underlying Hi though!

Dan, I would really need to see a bigger and better pic of your Showa. To me, the thing that gives it more of a chance, is the fact that none of the Sumi is up on the Hi plate yet. I would like to see that little bit of Sumi at the front of the second step, on the side of the shoulder close up? What I do like about your Showa is the nice Kohaku pattern, and what looks to be a pretty good Hi plate. Irrespective of the Sumi, this wouldn't have been a cheap Koi. If the Sumi does come, it's value will escalate (if good quality). It's a shame that we all too often see Showa with really poor patterns, or hooded heads. One thing you really need with a Showa, is a white nose, or if you like, a prett face. Since we tend to appreciate good Sumi, it is also desirable to have plenty of white ground (as yours has), so that the quality of the Sumi can be displayed easily. Also, on a Koi with a heavy Hi pattern, Sumi will often fill in the white gaps if the Hi pattern is too heavy or unbroken, leading to a lack of good white ground to admire! The bottom line... if your Koi develops good Sumi, and Sumi pattern, you'll be in awe of that Koi providing that the rest of it's qualities are good!

Now for the shot of what happens when a Koi has underlying Hi...

[koifishgirl]

What is hi plate?

[JasonS]

KFG, you really need to get some books and back issues of Koi-Bito. Being exposed to the vocabulary really helped me. Btw, koi.com (pan intercorp) has a nice vocabulary primer that may help.

Hi plate; the red section on top. In context they are talking about how the sumi (black) on top of the hi plate (larger sections of red) is strong while the sumi on the shiroji (white) part of the fish is kage type; the weaker color type.

I found that very interesting guys. Thanks much for the discussion.

[bekko]

Oh, you guys wouldn’t believe how bad I messed up. I kept looking for fish where the black slowly receded to reveal shiro and beni below. You say that all these showa are from black fry. At what point does the black fry turn into a predominantly white fish with sumi under the skin (#32 on page 4) and starts building black all over again? Is it like goldfish demelanization?


Even though I missed the big picture, the detail and photos have been really excellent. Thank you.


KFG, it’s not on my cheat-sheet of koi terms, but I think hi plate is a large patch of solid red.

-steve hopkins

[Maurice]

At six weeks you are looking for a patterned koi, by then the beni will be in it's place, but looking very pale, orange/brown. white skin looks grey, as mix of black and white.

Normal practice is to cull out all yellow fry at 3 days, then if you have a good growing pond cull for kohaku pattern at 4 weeks, for me I have to wait 6 weeks.

Then on subsequent culls for quality.



If you keep the yellow fry, most will look to be a mix type sanke/showa, but a few will turn into good modern showa.

It just depends on your space and what you want from your breeding, true type koi, or just something to sell.

I've not got any good shots, but this gives the general idea.


Maurice.