Potential Sumi Development in Showa - Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine

donald · 02-03-2005

I would like to post some showa pictures found in the web here for the purpose of judgement, learning and fun.

The fish belong to the koi dealers .... is it fair to the dealers? Donald

MikeM · 02-03-2005

It is common practice on several boards for pics of koi under consideration to be posted for advice/comment. I'd suggest not identifying the dealer or the price.

delaney · 02-03-2005

It is ILLEGAL in most countries to copy a photo from a web site for any other use, without the expressed, written permission of its owner. The fact that it is commonly done does not make it right.

donald · 02-03-2005

Does that means if I loose, I would loose more than just my fish? Donald

JasonS · 02-03-2005

I think it just means 'be aware'. I suspect just asking for the opinion is well within the 'fair use' rights.

Bottom line: if somebody asks you to stop using their pictures, you'd better stop.

If you simply want to include links to the appropriate fish then it is nice to the on-line retailer but Brian might not appreciate the free advertising for retailers that don't sponsor the website.

Now if you want to include links to fish at enkoi.com or genkikoi.com I don't think anybody will have a problem with it -- they're advertisers here.

Hard to say. Also very hard to pick a fish just from a picture.

D@z · 02-03-2005

Unless the pictures are posted with a copyright in place then I cant see a problem. By posting on the WORLD WIDE WEB they are making them public, putting them out for public use. If there is a note with them saying not for reposting or reproduction without the owners consent then I would look into it but unless they are copyrighted I dont see it as illegal or legelly binding.

If it where anyone could simply post pictures of themselves or their girlfriends naked and then sue everyone who saved them or printed them, easy money.

You could always post links to the pictures in their current positions.

donald · 02-04-2005

Providing the links would reveal the dealers, the subject that I agree with MikeM 100%.

Let me repost when the "safe" pictures collected .... the desire to share info with pond fellows is still strong. Donald

JasonS · 02-04-2005

D@z -- the law is that any picture is, unless otherwise noted, copyright of the photographer. If the photographer is employed to take those particular pictures, then the photos are generally copyright of the employer.

But common sense tends to control things; if the picture is out there free of charge to begin with, then there should be no charge to using a copy. This does NOT include scanning a picture from a magazine because the picture has an inherent price; that of the magazine.

And that still leaves the 'stop using my picture' option open.

I've had my pictures used here and there -- usually folks give credit and/or OK the use with me first. I even have a picture used in the Jan/Feb issue of KoiUSA -- I pre-OK'd the use by sending copies of the pictures to a few folks and gave them permission to use however they wanted as long as they gave credit.

MikeM · 02-04-2005

Donald: I think you can edit the title to this thread to something like: Internet Etiquette & Copyright . Then, start a fresh thread about future Sumi development. If you have become concerned about posting a pic from a commercial site, I bet if you ask if it would be O.K. to post a pic to get advice that the dealer will say it is O.K. If they do not, perhaps you'd be willing to share with us which dealers are unwilling to have their inventory critiqued.... of course, no criticism of a site sponsor and no names of a non-sponsor, so it needs to be by private message only.

.... just teasing.

bekko · 02-04-2005

I'm ready to learn something about potential sumi development in showa. Just post the photos and get on with it Donald. There are a zillion pictures of koi on the internet, 95% are outdated, and none are worth more than about five minutes of someone's time. What dealer would make an issue out of such a trivial matter in a public forum full of potential customers.
-steve

02-03-2005	#1 (permalink)
donald Tosai Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 22	Potential Sumi Development in Showa I would like to post some showa pictures found in the web here for the purpose of judgement, learning and fun. The fish belong to the koi dealers .... is it fair to the dealers? Donald

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02-03-2005	#2 (permalink)
MikeM Honmei Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 4,655	It is common practice on several boards for pics of koi under consideration to be posted for advice/comment. I'd suggest not identifying the dealer or the price.

02-03-2005	#3 (permalink)
delaney Tosai Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Emerald Hills, California Posts: 12	It is ILLEGAL in most countries to copy a photo from a web site for any other use, without the expressed, written permission of its owner. The fact that it is commonly done does not make it right.

02-03-2005	#4 (permalink)
donald Tosai Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 22	Does that means if I loose, I would loose more than just my fish? Donald

02-03-2005	#5 (permalink)
JasonS Tategoi Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Rocklin, CA Posts: 413	I think it just means 'be aware'. I suspect just asking for the opinion is well within the 'fair use' rights. Bottom line: if somebody asks you to stop using their pictures, you'd better stop. If you simply want to include links to the appropriate fish then it is nice to the on-line retailer but Brian might not appreciate the free advertising for retailers that don't sponsor the website. Now if you want to include links to fish at enkoi.com or genkikoi.com I don't think anybody will have a problem with it -- they're advertisers here. Hard to say. Also very hard to pick a fish just from a picture.

02-03-2005	#6 (permalink)
D@z Sansai Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 152	Unless the pictures are posted with a copyright in place then I cant see a problem. By posting on the WORLD WIDE WEB they are making them public, putting them out for public use. If there is a note with them saying not for reposting or reproduction without the owners consent then I would look into it but unless they are copyrighted I dont see it as illegal or legelly binding. If it where anyone could simply post pictures of themselves or their girlfriends naked and then sue everyone who saved them or printed them, easy money. You could always post links to the pictures in their current positions.

02-04-2005	#7 (permalink)
donald Tosai Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 22	Providing the links would reveal the dealers, the subject that I agree with MikeM 100%. Let me repost when the "safe" pictures collected .... the desire to share info with pond fellows is still strong. Donald

02-04-2005	#8 (permalink)
JasonS Tategoi Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Rocklin, CA Posts: 413	D@z -- the law is that any picture is, unless otherwise noted, copyright of the photographer. If the photographer is employed to take those particular pictures, then the photos are generally copyright of the employer. But common sense tends to control things; if the picture is out there free of charge to begin with, then there should be no charge to using a copy. This does NOT include scanning a picture from a magazine because the picture has an inherent price; that of the magazine. And that still leaves the 'stop using my picture' option open. I've had my pictures used here and there -- usually folks give credit and/or OK the use with me first. I even have a picture used in the Jan/Feb issue of KoiUSA -- I pre-OK'd the use by sending copies of the pictures to a few folks and gave them permission to use however they wanted as long as they gave credit.

02-04-2005	#9 (permalink)
MikeM Honmei Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 4,655	Donald: I think you can edit the title to this thread to something like: Internet Etiquette & Copyright . Then, start a fresh thread about future Sumi development. If you have become concerned about posting a pic from a commercial site, I bet if you ask if it would be O.K. to post a pic to get advice that the dealer will say it is O.K. If they do not, perhaps you'd be willing to share with us which dealers are unwilling to have their inventory critiqued.... of course, no criticism of a site sponsor and no names of a non-sponsor, so it needs to be by private message only. .... just teasing.

02-04-2005	#10 (permalink)
bekko Oyagoi Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Hakipu'u Posts: 1,352	I'm ready to learn something about potential sumi development in showa. Just post the photos and get on with it Donald. There are a zillion pictures of koi on the internet, 95% are outdated, and none are worth more than about five minutes of someone's time. What dealer would make an issue out of such a trivial matter in a public forum full of potential customers. -steve