"Koi Clubs and Koi Shows"

[Bob Hart]

JR,

- Thats me smiling!

There has to be a reason to be in a club, not just that there is one. I certainly agree that without the club's there wouldnt be any shows.

In the UK (in my opinion) there are just too many shows, with the show not being the point of the show. That may sound illogical, but many many people do not go to the show to view the show Koi, they go to pick up a bargain from dealers selling off stock. Clubs see it as a fund raising event.

I'd love to be in a club where they had a 'show', no traders/dealers, just a Koi show, where that was the whole point. You would have to charge people to enter their Koi, but if run along these lines you would get less people there to start with - perhaps. But this would improve the hobby in the UK.

Just my opinion though.

[James P]

Bob, I can see you have never been a koi show chairman! LOL

What I described to you is the koi hobby as it has evolved today. It is far from perfect but it is THE system that produced the first koi show in Japan and it is the system today that allows for an atmosphere for pricing $10,000 pound/ dollar koi. Even the anti-social who say " I don't show but I have show fish better than any I see at any show" don't realize the foolishness of that statement? Meaning they own what was priced as a show fish but choose not to show yet they compare their koi TO THE SHOW FISH for validation!!! LOL

The trade portion of any show does a few very valuable services. One) it allows shows to be put on at a certain scale without having to charge $250- 750 for entry like they do at say -The All Japan. Two) it also allows for competition among dealers which helps keep the cost of fish down for you and me. Third) If any ONE dealer attempts to sponsor and dominate a show, additional trade vendors act as a natural limiting factor so that that one dealer will not corrupt the amateur nature of the system.

Bob, you are dealer, correct? Did you ever sponsor a koi show?

JR

[dick benbow]

interesting thread. I laughed when i read that you weren't a koi club if you didn't have a show! When I got interested I had to start both koi clubs in the area. One i worked on for about 15 years before i got a show started, the other we got going the first year.


the same core people have carried both shows since the start and most are tired now and it's creating lots of tension and stress. I won't go into all the associated problems with dealer involvement, cliques etc but having an annual show can make or break a club depending on how it's handled.


Like most clubs i know, these kind of events aren't getting any easier to put on!

[James P]

It is an interesting thread Dick. I like turning over rocks and seeing what's underneath!

Many ZNA chapters around the world do not have the enough critical mass, quality fish, man power or equipment to put on a full blown show. But they do have teaching seminars held by a certified judge and/or they might use their own koi or young koi to critque so that all members get a chance to understand koi as art and how to be an educated consumer. But then again it is taken for granted that this study is an offshoot of the learning surrounding the 'testing ground' called the koi show. You just can't get away from it. Even with all the bruises and warts, the 'play' is the thing. JR

[Bern]

I am a member of a koi club (since 1988) and that koi club does hold a show.

I wasn't there when the club first decided to run a show so I don't know what the motive was. However, I was vice-showchair 1997-98 and I can tell you that it wasn't financial. The club made approx £1500 per show, which would have worked out at approx £1 per man hour if the guys and girls that put it on got paid. I assure you, putting on a show is a labour of love. However, that £1,500 went a long way to purchasing equipt and paying dues. So much so that the clubs subscriptions have only increased once in all the time I've been there. It's now an exhorbitant £12pa per family membership.

The show continues to this day and the main reason I endorse it at club level is that it is the great leveller and the best way to bring new comers into the club and break down the barriers. As somebody has already pointed out, clubs get cliquey. Which is quite natural, if people come from a reasonably wide area and only get to see each other once a month, they are going to make the best of that opportunity, which unfortunately means that newcomers get left out in the cold and the opportunities to integrate get less. The show is where people get more time to mix in.

I believe my particular club would disintegrate if the show was ceased. The majority of the longer standing BKKS sections are those that run shows, and several of the clubs that have folded in the more recent years are those that had shows and no longer do. There are several notable exceptions but in the main my theory holds out.

I believe that clubs can start up and find enough to keep their members interested for several years. But after that they need something for all members to focus on otherwise they run the risk of being social clubs and the cliques of original vs new members begin to divide them. A koi show is one such event.

As for the impact Koi shows have had on the hobby, JR has said it all.

rgds BERN

[Brady Brandwood]

"But after that they need something for all members to focus on otherwise they run the risk of being social clubs and the cliques of original vs new members begin to divide them. A koi show is one such event.

As for the impact Koi shows have had on the hobby, JR has said it all."


Some excellent words spoken by some seasoned veterans! YES, DEFINITELY!

Best Wishes,
Brady Brandwood

[aquitori]

Got good response from some notiable hobbyist in this thread...If there wasn't a club to join do you think you would be at the level of hobby your are today? This goes out to all the people who have responded or people who want to respond.

[JasonS]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori Got good response from some notiable hobbyist in this thread...If there wasn't a club to join do you think you would be at the level of hobby your are today? This goes out to all the people who have responded or people who want to respond.

I knew of my local club for a year or two before I joined. Thought I wasn't "good enough" until then. HA! I should've joined before I built my pond(s)!!

I definitely am better off for joining. But I wouldn't be if I just joined and expected the knowledge and experience to just come to me -- you get out of it what you put into it.

[Bob Hart]

JR - sorry I'm no dealer and wouldnt have the money to sponser a show. I'm just an ordinary hobbyist who's been around a long time. Been a club member, found it clicky, am very busy and the club meeting held at weekends didnt fit in with my 'busyness'. Perhaps I should have tried harder to become a part of it.

I have wondered about joining a club again, but still feel that they cater for the newcomers too much. I want to learn more than that, I can do that here plus speaking to a few learned dealers I know reasonably well.

I still cant afford the Koi I'd like to buy, even as Tosai, but can continue to learn and dream.

I will visit 3 club shows this year, they get my support through this, but I dont think the shows in the UK are getting better. Some of the top end Koi at the BKKS national are, but not too much elsewhere. Gary Abrams sums the UK situation up well in the latest NI article, perhaps the US it is different. There are those people like Bern who are extremely enthusiastic and live the show dream, but the attendances are generally dropping. I'd love to see the hobby move on, but dealers seem to be dropping out all the time in the UK.

Mustnt get too depressed though, there are still many fine dealers and people trying to move the hobby on.

Best wishes JR, sorry I cant agree with you this time.

[Bancherd]

We have a fairly active informal club in Thailand. I have been trying to establish a local ZNA chapter but am facing difficulties finding interested persons.

People are worried about having a ZNA chapter because they thought a formal ZNA chapter would need to have koi shows, requiring resources which most of us might not be able to commit to.