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Old 02-18-2005   #31 (permalink)
Nisai
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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koi shows

I dnt know about the states but in England with koi shows being in great demand for dealers. And space being a premium, how do people feel about craft stands and similar instead .Are these neccessary at a show meant to be designed for the koi and all things koi. , I would like to do away with the craft stands and the price wars on food and concentrate on the koi. More koi on show either in the show or on sale by more dealers, because the craft stands have gone. People dont need to be entertained by anything else. The koi provide the show.
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Old 02-18-2005   #32 (permalink)
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If it could be like a convention/koi show I think the turn out would be great. For a massive show to happen I think all the local clubs should get together and plan one out. It would be like a Car Show, where you can purchase koi things for a good price and see some really nice koi at the show. With the amount of money people spend in this hobby it isn't cheap by any means.
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Old 02-18-2005   #33 (permalink)
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As JR notes, having all the vendors makes show finance work. In the best of all worlds, I'd limit the number of vendors to what is required to finance the show. However, it is an imperfect world. So, I favor allowing all the vendors that can be fit in ... especially koi dealers. JR's proximity to koi dealers may cause him not to list a factor that is very material in other areas of the country, like Florida. There are no high end dealers within a day's drive. If they did not come to shows, there would be no opportunity to see decent koi in person w/o incurring substantial travel expense. The Silicon Valley and PA/NJ have offerings no other areas of the U.S. do. The koi show not only does all JR mentions, but in many areas it brings together enough of the kichi to make the economics work for all who are involved in the hobby.

When people go to a show to visit vendors, it tells you that the critical mass needed for self-sustaining economic activity is lacking. ... kinda like the medieval trade fairs that became the base for modern urban life.
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Old 02-18-2005   #34 (permalink)
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Dick, you say "having an annual show can make or break a club depending on how it's handled". How does a show break the club? What are the pitfalls that have to be avoided?
-steve
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Old 02-18-2005   #35 (permalink)
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Aquitori,

I missed one of your questions.
"2.Do you find you get more information on this Board than at club meetings?"

The answer is a big YES.

Koi Clubs, koi shows aside are still providers of advice, support and education. But it has to be said that since the advent of the Internet it has become the major source of information transfer.

At a koi club only one issue can be discussed formally at any one time and that time factor is restricted. On a forum the time is whatever is convenient to the individual, the subjects are being dealt with several at a time, and there is a documented list of the exchanges that can be referred back to. Also, the World (as in web) has more experts than the average club. The forums can be consulted at any time of the day, the clubs are restriced to their monthly meetings.

However, this has overflowed into the clubs. Never a meeting passes without somebody passing on information received via the net, and notably certain forums.

The forums have added a damn great extension to any koi club, and I wouldn't want to be without either.

rgds Bern
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Old 02-18-2005   #36 (permalink)
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Refering back to posts by Simon (a trade member) and Mike M & Bob (Hobbyists).

The Show Committee has to consider the needs of the visitors and it's supporters - the trade. I've found the trade, in general, the easier to please. They want an opportunity to sell, fair competition, an accessible water supply and electricity.

The public have more diverse needs, hence the need to provide other non-koi diversions to entertain elements of the family that aren't koi kichi. Craft stands and other exhibits do that job, hopefully keeping the non-koi partner happy while the koi kichi is mooching around the dealers.

The die hard koi nuts want to concentrate on the show fish, and somewhere to hang-out with similar souls. They appear to like a beer whilst doing it.

Others want to see as many dealers as possible to compare prices and have a more varied choice of fish. Koi shows in the UK give them the opportunity to see dealers from all corners of the country.

Last year I set up a SHOW information section on our web-site where I divided up the information into 20 seperate sections. When I looked at the stats after the show I found that the page with the largest number of hits was the Dealers page, the 2nd largest was the 'Food & Drink'. These two elements were way ahead of the rest of the elements which included 'Arts & Crafts', Exhibitions, Entertainment etc

I guest the old adage "That you can't please everybody, all of the time is true".

But we must not forget the main objective. The objective of the BKKS and its sections is to disseminate knowledge and promote good koi keeping practices. Shows are a great place to start the ball rolling, and getting people into the clubs is a step in the right direction.

rgds BERN
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Old 02-18-2005   #37 (permalink)
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Bob, I know the UK koi scene pretty well as an American, anyway? Been a BKKS member all through the late eighties/ early and mid nineties and I think I've attended the National at least four or five times. I have seen the great rise of UK koi keeping, its decline and resurrection. And it has been fascinating to watch the USA and Japan go through their own versions of that same cycle.

It would seem that in the beginning, every thing being new, the great excitement about the hobby is infectious! The enthusiasm is very high and you can cut the good will with a knife!

But as with many things, a certain percentage will get to the " been there, done that, have the tee shirt" point in the hobby. This takes its toll on the ranks and the enthusiasm. And also the koi show. Typically over any five- six year period you get a pretty hefty rotation of hobby membership. The core that remains naturally inherits the benefits and responsibilities of the club.



You touched on another reality of the hobby. It soon becomes apparent to all but the super rich that koi keeping, at the higher levels, is a VERY expensive hobby! Couple this with that fact that some koi do die along the way and all koi do pass a thing called ‘ sell date’ at some point and become near worthless momentarily, and it is understandable that some become disillusioned. But as I always say to friends that hit this wall of reality, and therefore a crisis about the koi show and their hobby, There IS a hobby beyond all that!

The koi are innocent! They are the same koi that we all fall for in the beginning. Enjoying watching a small koi, a really good koi, grow and develop, is still a thing of fascination for me. Just the other day, when I replaced the indoor lighting in my indoor system, I was struck by how one particular koi has grown and how broad and powerful it looked cruising under the new bright white metal halides. I was renewed.

So do I wish koi were cheaper? Most definitely! Do I wish politics and petty people stuff was left outside organized koi and the koi show? You bet! Are there control freaks, obnoxious ego maniacs and jerks in every koi club? Yep, I’m afraid so. But there is also ‘the salt of the earth’ and the ‘kindred spirit’ to be found in every koi club. They are guaranteed to have those too!

I’m a realist- you take the bad with the good- as long as the good is better than the bad! LOL

As for the question of whether the learning is better or greater on the boards than in REAL LIFE? Ahhh, yes real life experiences are better as they are broader and REAL! Look at it this way, you can study koi in pictures or you can study actual animals and discuss them with other people. Which do you think is a more valuable experience????

And I find the clicks on the boards to be MOST fragile and fleeting! In real life, people actually break bread together, become friends outside the hobby etc. Internet clicks come and go but I have made several ‘ friends for life’ in the real world of koi keeping. And around the show? The best friends of all. I’ve been to weddings, engagement parties, retirement parties, pond openings, funerals, births and anniversaries of koi friends and their family. I have friends in 15 states, nine countries and four continents thanks to koi and koi shows. This is not from the Internet, I assure you! That would be delusional and creepy!

The boards, in my opinion, are most of all convenient and fit the consumer’s desire to have information at one’s finger tip. Notice I used the word consumer. Boards are also excellent for stimulating thought, getting broad view points etc. BUT I can tell you, I learn more in one afternoon with a Japanese heavy weight or a long term hobbyist/kindred spirit who has experienced what I have but maybe has a different read, than I learn in six months on a koi board. Just the way it is.

Rambl’en Reilly





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Old 02-18-2005   #38 (permalink)
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Bern/JR,

I fully agree with everything you've both said. The clubs/shows are the begining and the middle ground, with a touch of the top-end. One day I'd just love to see a Koi show which was foccussed on 'just' the show Koi. I spend 90% of my time at the national just going round and around the vats, talking with people, asking questions regarding the merits of various Koi. I do enjoy the comaraderie of others, but I find only a few people 'like' myself.

I probably fit into JR's "hit this wall" group and have been in this group for a while now. Am constantly trying to learn more, the Internet and a few dealers I know reasonably well continue to educate me. But I've got to the period now where what I want is out of reach, due to finances.

I really do enjoy helping others though and find myself most every weekend either helping to build a pond, putting something right, or assisting with Koi treatments via my experiences. This I feel I give something back to the hobby.

But I'm still frustrated.

A Koi club would enable me to give more back (which is great) but I dont think would enable me to gain much more knowledge. The internet and those dealers I know allow me to grow and then try and utilise that on my own and others in my 'group'.

I'm not sure where I'm headed though ........

I'm rambling now James, appreciate your words - thanks
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Old 02-18-2005   #39 (permalink)
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Hi Bob,

You and I both belong to an Internet Club, KoiChat. A lot of the extra-carricular activity of Koi Chat is the same as a conventioanal koi club, e.g. the practical, hands-on help given to other members etc. It's a bit like a Society really as what you do is replicated by others up and down the country in their own local areas.

I fully appreciate your feelings about attending koi shows. I wrote an article in one of the National Show Programmes (93 I think) detailing how my attitudes to shows had changed. You'd find it remarkable similar to your own experience, i.e. from focusing on dealers originally to eventually focusing on the centre ring.

To my mind you have two choices. Neither are mutually exclusive.

1. Join a Koi Club (with a show) and get into the Show team. Working on the inside gives a new perspective and some new goals, as well as ample opportunity to see the fish.

2. Become a judge. No better way of getting to find out about decisions than being on the inside. BTW - check out the BKKS web-site. There is an ad for new Trainees.

I seriously suggest doing the first. You have recently had a birthday and the only way is down now. This is your last chance to get involved in this area before the physical frailties set it and you're no use to man nor show committee.

Happy belated Birthday
Bern
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Old 02-18-2005   #40 (permalink)
Daihonmei
 
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Should there be a ranking system for hobbyist?

I have a couple of family members who are "Masons", what kind of group that it I don't know...My dad always told me that there are "Masons" all over the world like a secret society...What got me was there were different levels and ranks of each members...And no matter where you go you'll be accepted as long as you know the secret language...
My point is, should there be a ranking system in a club to push each member to the next level? I am not say everyone can be a "Judge", but to keep the brain fresh with new knowledge...
Also another point, most of the people on this thread some how "Hit the wall", understandable I feel the same way too, the only way I feel more useful is to spread what knowledge I have to my friends. I have been in this hobby almost 9yrs now and damn to think I got in this hobby when I was 22years old. Finally went to Japan last Sept. wow what a koi career..Well anyways, would a "Koi Show" prevent the "Hit the wall" syndrome for most members?
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