One Step Closer

[ranskye]

yeah i reckon if you believe ghost they are there for you, if you believe in feng shui it works.. its not like the designs suck anyway. its good ideas thats been thought about by man, implemented and mans been happy with it.
if the water runs towrd the front of your house wakes you up in the morning, the thought of it makes you zesty and gets you to go to work hard then youll be prosperous.
im not religious but good designs make for a happier more pleasant area.

[Akai-San]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasonS How big are the vortexes and how many gallons do you estimate for this thing? Is it really 10x30x6? That'll be very nice but I think you'll need to dig 48 inches, not 30...

Each vortex scales at 42 inches width. I could go with (4) 48 inches vortexes but I would probably loose my line-up of filters. Hey maybe I can go with (2) 48's and (2)42's...good idea...hope that would suffice 10,000+ gallons?

Because I have a 48" elevated deck, sides of the pond are 24 inches from the deck and the pond is situated on a slight inclined maybe I'll dig 36" max. unless I should go for 8' depth...

[ranskye]

akai san,

i strained the old eye and had a look at the drawing, no offence intended..it looks ok to me but ill bounce an idea around..

can someone tell me why there is a need for so many vortexes, as opposed to one big spa with no bubbles..im just not familiar with more than one vortex. please explain..
what about placing a big 2 inch screen in the base of the main tank that stops the fish from stirring that area up or blocking if dead..and it can capture soids in the bottom of that and you can tap it out daily from there to save the space and money and then use just one vortex on the outside. maybe use a 4 inch pipe with a little wastemover pump in it timed off to your garden and also a bootom tap for leaves..that would maybe keep any future prospective buyer of the property from wondering whats with the four spa baths.

[ranskye]

you might like to check out another drain system used at the florida fish barn i think by tom losardo, he used it with success on kilos and kilos of food going in daily and now i think hes going to koi casue our fisheries was asking our farms if we had broodfish for him.
if you cant find info i can read up more for you.

[bekko]

Lorsoro is looking for baramundi broodstock.

[ranskye]

sorry guys and girls.. my mistake it was dr thomas losordo, not from florida fish barn as i first thought but carolina fish barn. we recieved a letter on his behalf seeking stock.

i checked out the paper and it shows a drain that takes the settled waste away and keeps the main water flow running elsewhere, still filtered it reduces the load and the smashing up of solids..they use it in the bottom of the main grow out tank. they were growing at a very high stocking rate and feeding it bags of feed and it was working for them, maybe it can be applied here. i think that the drain is availabe commercially but essentially the main flow comes from slightly abouve the bottom while all the much slides down to the very bottom and offthrough a smaller pipe.

[Akai-San]

Quote: Originally Posted by ranskye akai san, i strained the old eye and had a look at the drawing, no offence intended..it looks ok to me but ill bounce an idea around.. can someone tell me why there is a need for so many vortexes, as opposed to one big spa with no bubbles..im just not familiar with more than one vortex. please explain.. what about placing a big 2 inch screen in the base of the main tank that stops the fish from stirring that area up or blocking if dead..and it can capture soids in the bottom of that and you can tap it out daily from there to save the space and money and then use just one vortex on the outside. maybe use a 4 inch pipe with a little wastemover pump in it timed off to your garden and also a bootom tap for leaves..that would maybe keep any future prospective buyer of the property from wondering whats with the four spa baths.

Ranskye,

I guess after the hundred or so post I made regarding filtration, the forum engraved into my head that separating, disposing, and filtering heavy solids and med-fines waste was one of the most important factors to maintaining water quality. The faster the solids could be removed the better. In fact my very first post regarding having one large vortex for multiple bottom drains was quickly "shot-down" by many of the experienced keepers. Isolation and disposal was the key, and the faster, the better. I also thought a surface skimmer would also be a good addition, but not decided yet.

Heavies can be effectively handled by first stage vortex or screens, but they will never take care of the med-fines that are still suspended in the water, unable to settle-out. Hence the secondary vortex with K1 to take care of the med-fines. Much like the new "Easy" in the Nexus. Third stage polishing of water to run through the showers (No cleaning). I'm guessing with regular draining of the heavies vortex the K1 vortex will be able to be maintained everyother day (depending on fish load). With this set-up I'm expecting maintenance of the pond to be an average of 10-15 minutes a day (without getting hands wet). Still just my first attempt at a starting point. With new technology, these plans may still all go down the drain...Anyway thats just my take...

[bekko]

Carl, when I looked at the drawing it did not occur to me that there is no skimmer. However, without one you can get a persistent layer of scum on the surface. The scum is dissolved proteins and other long-chain molecules that affect the surface tension. The scum may be colorless, but you notice a difference in the "texture" of the water surface. The bakki shower splashing may partially break it up, but its a long pond and the splashing may not be enough. Adding a skimmer would complicate matters if you want to stick with a vortex for each drain. Its difficult to simultaneously run a bottom drain and a skimmer to a single vortex becuse you can never get the flows equalized. Maybe you could alternate between having a single vortex draw from the skimmer for a while and then draw from the bottom drain.

-steve

[ranskye]

i hear you exactly, seperation and removal as quicly as possible..that maintains water quality, its a good aim and good you took such notice but i cant see why you cant separate from the bottom of the pond just the same as a vortex, then you should only need the one vortex for your finer stuff coupled with that k1 trip for light and suspended stuff. i guessing itll save good dollars and space.
maybe its that im not getting how exactly or how often the vortex puts away with the solids but surely you could do the same, i mean a 10000 gallon pool has better settlement ability than a vortex, theres a tapered bottom there for a start..you can add a collection and removal point there..you just need to work out how to get rid of the crap in the base on a regular basis and its rather easy with timers.
if you can get it into a vortex you can get it out of the water just the same from the bottom of a collection circle in the pond.
if your using a regular water exchange rate, incorportate that into your flushing out of the base.
twice a day should be fine enough but its nothing to time it so it flushes 5 times a day of small volumes of waste water. and do have your oils pulled from the top of the water. sorry bout this but i reckon form the main pond is the best spot to pull it from also. its where build up occur best..i use overflows to remove mine, i used to run the full fractionator and pump venturi, even ozone injection and that whole trip and while it works beautifully i found that for non extreme stocking rates theres no need for overkill in running costs when oils float and fall over with water fall.

[Akai-San]

ranskye,

Thank you. Some good points made. One of the main reasons for having the vortex or somekind of setting tank is to get the doots out of the main pond (where the koi hang) as soon as it hits the bottom drains. IMHO, not letting the doots ferment and hang out on the bottom of the pond for any amount of time is just smart practice. Timers are a good remedy to that but I don't trust any mechanics when it comes to draining ponds (you know what I mean?) Forum members made that a absolute requirement to take the doots OUT OF THE POND ASAP. Made sense to me. Once out of the pond, I can treat and dispose at will.

One of the other pet pieves that I have is having a good current in the pond for the koi to swim around in. I have planned a series of wall jets at the pond perimeters to circulate water and also direct all waste and rubbish to the bottom drains. I'm shooting for a 10000+ gallon exercise pen with a constantly clean bottom. Work and tone those girlie swimming muscles. Hahaha...Thanks again for your insights.