Salting

[Tamus]

Found a post done in the past about salting and was wondering more about it. As I said back when I first posted I had a koi that was laying over whenever he wasn't moving around. He eats and swims around well and doesn't show any other signs of illness other than his fins look a bit ragged I thought I saw some rot on them yesterday but I wanted to be sure so I netted him and took a good close look at him and found nothing (anchor worms flukes etc) I don't have a microscope so I can't do that, but I am baffled by this fish. Any other fish I have had that have gotten sick either got better(from medication) or died within a week or so. This koi has been doing this for 2 weeks now and doesn't show any other adverse effects other that the fins which could be from laying on his side so much.
Which brings me back to salting. Koivet says to try that before doing anything else becuase it is helpfull even if it doesn't solve the problem. I unfortunately don't know the exact gallons so 0.3 would be hard to calculate effectively. The older post says a salt dip is something that some of them use, but they don't salt the entire pond unless they are sure they need to. I of course am unsure of anything other than knowing that I am not sure. All the other fish are acting fine and nothing unusual is going on in the pond other than the one koi.
Todd

[MikeM]

First, "everyone" will tell you not to treat unless you know what you are treating. Second, without a microscope you cannot know for sure. Third, I don't expect beginners to get a scope. So, where does that leave you? ... guess that means sometimes treatment has to occur on the basis of educated guesses... or you go find someone local who has a scope & is willing to help out.

Going to koivet to review the symptoms page and suggested treatments is a helpful place. However, I am a bit uncertain about the flukes diagnosis for "laying over". Typically if one koi has an infestation of flukes, the whole pond will have them, and some flashing would be seen. If it is flukes, the salt will not do much good. Prazi has become the treatment of choice, but is expensive. Second choice has become supaverm. Third choice is fluke tabs. Fourth is the formalin/malachite green remedies (have to pay attention to water temps and do not use salt at the same time) or Potassium Permaganate for those skilled in its use. [I'll get in trouble over the ordering!!] I am wondering if it is just a matter of your butterfly being more sensitive to the cold than the others, but if the water is warm enough for them to be fed, then that should not be the issue. On the other hand, when I have had ich infections, the koi "go to ground" and one or more may sort of look like they are tilting toward one side. Ich can be successfully treated with salt, which is my treatment of choice for Ich. But, again, usually it would be more than one fish infected... and they stop eating if the infestation gets very serious.

So, I hesitate to give any advice because on the information available one guess is as likely to wrong as another. .... Except, I would advise against a salt dip. That is something that can do far more harm than good unless you know what you are doing. And, I'd advise you to get an accurate gallonage measure of your pond. You need that for any treatment. Best way is to empty the pond and then re-fill making certain nobody uses any water in the house while you are re-filling. Check the water meter to your house before & after. You can calculate your gallonage pretty accurately. (Some folks in parts of Britain and elsewhere would have problems with that advice, because water meters are not universal. In some places water is free) Of course, the koi need to be kept in an adequate facility while you do it.

If your water temps are up (60sF & higher) and you feel you have to treat even though you do not know what you are treating for, and cannot restrain yourself, then your best bet for "wide spectrum" coverage is one of the formalin/malachite green treatments available at most pond supply shops or over the internet from mail order discount aquarium & pond suppliers. ....Wish there was someone close by who could pay you a visit & check it out.

[Tamus]

Thanks Mike,I did not intend to imply that Koivet said Flukes would do that to a fish only that when I looked at him I saw no signs of those things just to illiminate them as a possibility.I guess without a clear method of medicating I will opt not to do anything. If the fish has lasted 2 weeks I hesitate to bother him. If he dies...well then he dies I have the luxury of my fish being the cheap mutts that they are and while him dying would be another failure which I hate. It will only be in the long run another learning step. If he pulls through then I will have a little more of a bond with him since if he is just more affected by the cold he will be dubbed Chilly Willey. My main concern is they rest of my fish and their continued well being. Any other advice besides just making sure he isn't dead and if he is fishing him out quick?

What would be a decent holding tank for when I drain out my pond and check gallonage?
Also are butterfly koi considered not real koi? I know they are a cross with a different kind of carp, but since I never see any pictures of them I wonder as to if they are only for those of us that just want pretty fish. Do they have a butterfly class in koi shows or is it just the traditional short finned koi?

[dick benbow]

without seeing the koi it's hard to diagnose. That's why your Dr always wants to see you before anything gets diagnosed. it could be swim bladder, if none of the other koi seemed bothered.



As far as longfins, many koi shows have a class for them. I know the shows i bench for do. BTW when you meansure them it's from tip of the nose to base of the tail. finnage not included!