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[koifishgirl]

Have any of you guy ever noticed a koi cleaning a site before getting ready to spawn. The reason I ask is my Gin Matsuba and a large male I dont know what type as you can put in any class I dont guess, anyway the were both flashing on top of a large pvc pipe that I put in the pond for them if something frightens them. She would do this first and then he followed suit. I was thinking that its maybe flucks so I medicated the pond. It was kind of strange because they are the only two doing this. Have any of you ever heard of this? Any comments?

[dick benbow]

My quess is you were right anticipating that it was caused by flukes. i would like you to shortly get a microscope and do some checking before treating. The knowledge to help you advance would be good and i really feel strongly to treat for something you haven't confirmed is something you won't want to continue.
I hope you don't misunderstand my communication. Over the weeks i've come to admire your genuine love of the hobby and desire to learn. So I'm encouraging you to get a better understanding to advance your cause.

[koifishgirl]

I will do that and how do I go about opening the gills without hurting the koi to check for parasites? I dont want to cause damage to the gills because of me not knowing what to do. The fish flap around so much I am afaired I will hurt them and I have not learned how to put one to sleep to take a scrap it that is what I need to do. I have read post about using clove oil to put to sleep and then putting them back in good water for them to come to, but I have not done this. Will this be something that I need to do.

[ranskye]

ahh dick your a very nice man, id agree also. she's very very keen.
fish like to scrape their bodies along many sufaces to try remove such parasites.
it dont often work too well because we have them in small confines andf they cant just swin away. id recommend you check out the relationship between genetic (or fish more so) environment and pathogen. the best concept i grasped in regard to fish health was the one where those three dictated a result.
some parasites by there mere presence will take hold and others need environment to be suitable for them, it can also be that the fish is first weakened and predisposed due to environmental stress, some use a host. some have life cycles that you can use to advantage when treating.
all very interesting.
basically if you have great water, your on the way, definately go with dick on not treating unless you know what your looking at, though I try treat a fish as it gets home so you dont introduce anything new.
i like to use salt myself. if your checking for gill parasites i would knock them out. take a gill clipping or scrape.

[koifishgirl]

Thanks guys, I had just cleaned the pond and I am sure they did not have the best water conditions as the pond was way to heavly stocked with fish. I am going to get me a micro today if I can find one. If I used a 5 gallon tub how much salt would I add, and how long should I leave the fish in the water. I have checked the koi today and I dont see any flashing so I am thinking the fluke tabs done the trick. With the water temp rising I am thinking it may be my best bet to treat all of them with a salt bath. I want my fish to be healthy so I will do what I need to do, I also agree that I should not have treated without finding out what the problem is but I just figured that it was flukes as i had a problem with flukes when I purchased a lot of small koi and I used the meds and stoped lossing the koi. They were doing the same think filckering on the bottom of my pond and some were gasping for air at the surface. I did not want to wait about treating with something as the koi that were suffering are my largest koi. I noticed the problem on Sunday afternoon and all stores that carry anything to help were closed. I will not make this mistake again and will do a salt bath to get rid of parasites. I really should have put some stress coat on the koi before I put them back into the main pond but I did not as I was out thinking I had some before I started the cleaning of my pond.

[ranskye]

kfg,

look at ocean saltwater is 35ppt. thats 35 kg per 1000kg water.
this would kill them.

they can handle 12 ppt for a number of hours. but thats pushing things unless you watch and get experience. i dont find salt deadly as it can be reversed if one takes it a bit too far.

a safe enough rate for you to try is 3-5 ppt. which is 3-5 grams per litre.
they can handle that for prolonged periods.. days and weeks certainly. maybe forever. itll wipe out many-most freshwater parasites but not all. try it. ive had ponds running that high a salinity for a long time before today.

i choose to go about 7 grams per litre for a couple of hours.
for you, you could do just fine at 3-5ppt for the same time.
if worried about this rate you want to try, check it on a trash fish.
whats that about 15 grams per gallon i think.
ever in doubt about an expensive fish and a dose rate, find out a rate and have a quick trial on a cheapo.
salt is something we are allowed to use here. it doesnt beat all nasties but it suits me.
some things you can see drop off within 20 minutes. salts cheap, natural and fairly-very effective, but cause its natural its not completely effective on all things as some nasties have evolved in the presence of rivers with simialr salinities and as such have a tolerance also, just like your fish.

tell me whats this stress coat?

[koifishgirl]

Stress coat replaces slime . When I clean my koi pond and have to net them I may rub alot of their slim coating off their bodies. This is what you put on the koi to replace the slim they have lost. To my understanding this is what is used on koi during shipment to help protect the koi as they have been handled and this helps replace what we have taken off of them from them being netted and handled and moved. You can put this from head to tail on the koi and put back in the pond.

[ranskye]

i get it, try minimize the rub off, plastic garbage bag or stronger better still a large fish bag.

[bekko]

You just squirt a bit into the transport water. It's some sort of polymer which coats everything it comes in contact with - including the fish and the bag. It is supposed to provide an artificial slime coat to help prevent bacterial invasion. I use it because I am told to but do not know if it really helps.

-steve

[ranskye]

i must be lucky with my water, even when my females get ganged up on by boys and their colour is even rubbed off their bellies they still come good.