Which Kohaku would you choose

[dtbh]

Attached are the photos of 2 kohakus.

1. Nogami Kohaku Sansai 60cm

2. Momotaro kohaku Sansai 74cm (photo not well taken)

The Nogami kohaku has incredible shiroji and beni but not the body while the Momotaru has great body, mediocre shiro and far from finished beni.

Which would you pick?

Thanks.

[soelistyo]

hi doc
comparing based on single photos are seldom a good idea, not to mention the 2 photos were taken under different lighting conditions making it even more questionable.
taking your description of the koi though, personally i'd probably go with the Nogami. you say the body is no good, i can't really see that from the pic as the fish seems to have a very thick tail tube. its body is probably a bit short? but i love thick beni and nice shiroji, add that to the more interesting pattern and this koi would probably keep my interest for longer than the momo.
the momo, 14 cm larger at same age, safe to say probably will grow on to be the bigger fish. but i find the head/shoulder pattern distractingly boring (was that an oxymoron, btw?), and if the beni/shiroji is no good at this stage personally i wouldn't expect it to suddenly become great down the line? i can't tell from the pic, but if the beni is really the brick-like type i've seen of many second rate momotaros, it's not very pleasing to look at.
it probably comes down to what you're looking for: a koi that's pretty but would struggle to go above 70cm, or one that has a much better chance to reach 70cm and beyond but will never truly be the apple of your eye.
this fish reminds me of a momotaro sanke i recently passed up on. not yet a year old, already nearing 50cm, great inazuma hi pattern with very impressive body. but the skin was just oh-so-dull!!

again, this is just a comment from a know-little guy basing his words on a couple of photos, so take of it what you can (if anything!).
hope whichever you choose will bring you satisfaction.
cheers.

[aquitori]

I like both Kohaku. But if I had to pick one it would be hard.

Nogami Kohaku is ready for the show, but knowing the bloodline it will just get better and better. Shiroji and Beni is really nice and with good husbandry will stay that way probably til the fishes death which could be when the fish is like 15years old. So this Kohaku I would pick just because of the bloodline and I am not worried about how big it will get because it will maintain it's beauty for many years.

Momotaro Kohaku is for size, if I wanted a big fish right a way I would go with this Kohaku. The beauty doesn't come right away unlike the Nogami Kohaku the Momotaro Kohaku still has more growing to do before it can concentrate on cleaning up.

[dick benbow]

I like the Nogami one, personally. While i think both koi are decent, the depth of the beni on the first one holds my attention. I learned along time ago that pattern wasn't the deciding factor.

[koifishgirl]

Koi #1 now thats a nice koi Doc.

[JasonS]

The Momo looks a bit stressed in the photo -- the actual shiro could be better.

But, by the pictures, I agree the the Nogami is the nicer fish. And Aquitori's comments on the bloodline make me feel better about that decision (I'd worry about the future of the fish but not after his comments).

[Andrew]

Accepting that in reality we wouldn't make this sort of decision against single, and with respect not brilliant, pics of the two fish, the Nogami.

Maybe the kiwa, sashi and shiroji of the Momo will come with age, but that's a hell of a maybe against a photo!

Of the two, as presented, no question, the Nogami for me.

[MikeM]

My, my, my. What similar patterning and thickness in the tail region. I like both very much. Very impressive. A couple of years ago I got a Nogami Kohaku with an awful pattern and a defective scale strategically located on her shoulder. She made for an inexpensive way to grow a Kohaku with the genes to grow large. She was a 16" nisai. After one year, she was over 24" and growing rapidly. I had to get her another home to hold down the population. So, I do not know how big she might have gotten. What I liked about her most, however, was the deep color tone of the Beni, which remained very nice despite warm temperatures and fast growth. She was "stubby", with a high arching shoulder as Nisai. The shoulder area elongated as she grew. The body shape improved with growth. She still had a lanky, clumsiness about her at 24" that I think was going away as she grew ... rather like a puppy with big feet grows into them.

If the fish were the same size, I'd definitely choose the Nogami. Trouble is, I do not know if I could pass up a 30" Momotaro if I could afford her. How much larger might she grow! In just another year she could be cruising close to 34".

A very tough choice.

[dtbh]

Looks like the consensus is unanimous. Judging from photos is always difficult as photos frequently do not do justice to the fish. Take it from me that the Nogami IS what she is in real life but the Momo is far better than the photo.

We are often presented with this dilemma (if one just have to pick one) with one that has the skin of a Ms Uniververse but a vital statistics of 36-33-35, while the other with a common skin that has good potential if given a beauty treatment and a body of a Ms Universe. I tend to go for the latter. The Momo was actually an earlier purchase. I pondered hard to try to give myself the overriding reason to add the Nogami to my pond given my limited pond space. Finally decided against it. The reasons are :

1. A finished koi with limited upside (if anything, downside at least in my pond). However this is the koi to have if one wants to enter her into a show now.

2. Short body. We in the tropics is unfortunate(fortunate?) in that we have to feed our kois very frequently to obtain a good body conformation. From personal experience she will not take the feeding regime well and will soon develop a tummy.

The photo of the Momo was taken last October (65cm) at purchase. The hi then was thin but of good quality with the centre of the scale more red than the periphery. She has since grown to 74cm putting more bulk and the hi improved significantly but still far from finish. Her hi will never be the quality you see in the Nogami. Even then I think the Momo will give one more pleasure (a tategoi perhaps?) for many years to come. She will give me 2 challenges ie to grow her and to improve her hi which is easier than to maintain the beauty of the Nogami. I am reflecting my inadequacies here and I must say that if I can maintain the Nogami's beauty I would probably put her in my pond just to admire her beauty and to use her as a referrence.

Thanks guys for your inputs. Anyone wants to value the price range of these kois?

Doc

PS I always put a value to a koi before I ask the dealers. If the price is way beyond my value I just don't buy. This way I hope I will not make unnecessary purchases.