hikui, question for high end koi folks

[saratogatan]

my best kohaku has the first sign of hikui. I am dead sure about that as I have 2 kois went thru the same thing. I will take photo thursday and post it. I have been told that hi-silk can undo hikui, just like to ask if anyone has information in that.

I wonder what high end koi hobbyist will do in this situation. I still has the other hikui infected koi in my pond, not quite full blown yet, but sh*t it is damn sad.

stan

[aquitori]

Do you have a pic of the Kohaku? I hate to give advice if I can't see the problem.

[dick benbow]

the trouble with Hikui is that I've never read any single thing responsible. I have seen it in spotlessly clean ponds yet dirty conditions are often mentioned. I have read that feeding too high a protein food at too low a temperature can contrubute to it. I think that may be of some concern from my observation. Plus I think there are certain genetic lines that are more prone to it than others. The products made in japan claim to make a difference but I have no experience with them. Izekei mentions a combination of several of his goods as able to turn it around. Do we have anyone who can shed some light on these products from experience?

[aquitori]

Dick, is right with Hikkui. There is no one cause for it. Knowing some people have said they have cured it using Billion and other things like that. But, no one has a sure fired way.
Stan how old is you Kohaku? Knowing where you bought the Kohaku and the time line you bought the Kohaku as Jumbo tosai correct? About 3 years ago? For me it's kinda strange to see hikkui on a young fish.

[Bob Winkler]

I have seen and treated Hikkui on a few koi. Dick is right, some lines and types of beni seem to be more prone to it. Was my treatment successful? I would say somewhat. It did look better for a time, and then cam back. I am currwently on the "second round" of treatment on one particular koi. The treatment, taught to me a breeder in japan, and reinforced by Kodama and Japan koi online material (where I got the Billion Pro) is to


1) anesthetize the koi
2) Using a scapel, remove the infected tissue by scraping across the surface.
3) Blot dry the tissue. It bleeds a little bit.
4) Spray on the billion pro, being careful not to get it on the other parts of the skin.

One complication was that on one koi I have treated, I ended up with infected tissue after treating it. Different and under the skin. Had to treat that after with a different method, which was a PIA. Hope that helped.

[saratogatan]

aq and everyone,
I have some slack tomorrow, I will take a photo on this koi. I may also apply Steroid on this koi, hell, can't loss anyway.

Some history of 3 infected kois:
ginrin sanke : Sakai of Hisroshima (damnnnnnnnn), all started with a pin head 'yellowing' on the head. I gave 1 away, still have 1 in my pond. I am giving that away this saturday. 20"++, 3 year old.

kohaku: dainichi, also sansai. about 19". Shows a pin head yellowing on the head, first observed yesterday evening. This used to be my second best kohaku, but the best one went belly up for no reason last year.

water quality was kind of iffy end of last year and begining of the year. But water quality hs been good since I upgraded the filter. pretty much feed them nothing from early dec to last week of mar. I am using hikari wheatgerm and niigata wheatgerm.


I don't know if genetic play a role here.

stan

[dtbh]

Hikkui to me is like a death sentence to a koi. Some years ago I tried antiseptics, antibiotics, antifungal, solcoseryl, steroids, salt etc with at best minimal improvement and it invariably recurred.

Noone knows exactly why it happens but allow me to list some observations :

1. Tend to occur in ponds using corals as filter material
2. Inadequately maintained filters with accumulation of sludge EVENTHOUGH water is crystal clear
3. Occurs usually on the hi
4. Overcrowded ponds
5. Improve when kept in mudponds but recur when returned to concrete ponds

Looking at these observations I believe that sludge accumulation is a common factor. It then makes sense to minimise this as a form of prevention.

I would like to share with you guys what I did/am doing to hopefully prevent hikkui. I know these are non-specific ways but since it seems to keep hikkui at bay this far (years now) I thought it may be helpful. At worst your kois will love you for it. Thus :

1. Bypassed my waterfall/waterway...this is one sure area for sludge accumulation
2. Increased aeration
3. Daily siphoning of sludge
4. 10% water change daily
5. Cleaning, in stages, the filter material every few months

Does anyone know what is the underlying pathology?

[saratogatan]

as promise, here are some photos. The suspected area is almost at the center of the head, a litle bit behid the line joining the eyes, but a litle close to the left eye than the right. hevin Pham looked at the photo, but suspected it could be an injury.

stan

[saratogatan]

Ooph, left out the photos... try again. hmm, its does not like 1024X768. strange.

will try again

[saratogatan]

here are ther photos.