Momotaro male koi taking big prizes at the 36th All Japan Show - Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine

erwinsan · 04-19-2005

I couldn't help but notice 4 out 6 kois that took major awards for Momotaro Koi Farm were male. I saw this on their page update today. I find it intersting that male koi which are not usually as "prized" as the females are now displaying excellent qualities; from confirmation, skin quality, size, color and pattern are now winning.

Could this be a sign of things to come?

36th, ALL JAPAN KOI SHOW
male Mature Champion90bu

36th, ALL JAPAN KOI SHOW
Kokugyo prize@90bu male
36th, ALL JAPAN KOI SHOW
Kokugyo prize@80bu male

36th, ALL JAPAN KOI SHOW
Kokugyo prize@65bu male

I got the pics directly from Momotaro's page.

RayJordan · 04-19-2005

Beautiful Koi but they didn't beat female koi. Male koi compete against other male koi in a sperate division after they are about 50 cm. in lenght. in the All Japan SHow.

erwinsan · 04-19-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayJordan

Beautiful Koi but they didn't beat female koi. Male koi compete against other male koi in a sperate division after they are about 50 cm. in lenght. in the All Japan SHow.

Why the separate division?

MikeM · 04-19-2005

The separate division is to be fair to males. It helps overcome the reluctance to bring a fish not likely to prevail over a female.

BUT, what is of interest to me is that Momotaro is producing some rather large males with significant volume. I would not venture to suggest that males are as good as females (generally ... there is always some exception), that is an old debate others can have if they wish. Nonetheless, there are strong points among male koi that give some hope that in the future there could be bloodlines aimed at producing dominating males, albeit not likely in the 75cm+ sizes (making that incredible 90bu male koi all the more impressive). The rare male koi with girth lacks the egg bloat that malforms the abdomen and causes a wiggly swim movement. The Beni can be high quality and on fast growing jumbo tosai-types an early finish might not be a bad thing. There are fewer internal health issues with males. Maybe someone like Maeda will produce such a line. Based on the prices for the males exported to the U.S., he already understands that males can mean money.

.......makes you wonder about the females such a line would produce, doesn't it?

aquitori · 04-19-2005

I think a male of same size and volume could beat out a female. But it would have to be a really good male. Here locally at shows most of the show entarants are males probably 75%. My male Kohak won Mature Champion at the ZNA in SoCal, beating out way bigger females..I think in the end regardless of sex, overall quality will always be the deciding factor. Ask and judges on this board they know or should know this fact.

MikeM · 04-19-2005

Yes, but that leads to females overwhelmingly.

dick benbow · 04-19-2005

back when i was motivated to win shows the two best awards I ever "took"
RGC and tategoi were with male koi. ( had knowledge not the $ funds!)

The reserve Grand champ was sanke from toshio sakai
and
tategoi award ( future GC) was kohaku from Sakai hiroshima.

there have been male winners at the all japan show for GC. But as Mike suggests it's fighting with one hand tied behind your back.

I do think the original intent of this thread was to give credit to the knowledge and effort expended to produce such male koi.....and i whole heartedly agree!

aquitori · 04-19-2005

I think here in the States it would be hard to find a Hobbyist with a Gosanke male over 28" at a show. I mean of very good quality...Mostly females buying for size 5 & 6 awards.
Alot of hobbyist are goin down the big female route, but that's understandable everyone wants a big fish. I think the thought of this thread is more on the Japanese side of competition. But if I could get my hands on something of overall quality for really cheap it would have to be Momotaro male, since females command a higher price.
In the end it comes down to what comes out at a show, so no one knows.

RayJordan · 04-20-2005

I would be surprized if male koi of this quality and size are significantly cheaper. P. Waddington says there are cheap koi, and there are good koi, but there are no good cheap koi. I agree.

04-19-2005	#1 (permalink)
erwinsan Tategoi Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 362	Momotaro male koi taking big prizes at the 36th All Japan Show I couldn't help but notice 4 out 6 kois that took major awards for Momotaro Koi Farm were male. I saw this on their page update today. I find it intersting that male koi which are not usually as "prized" as the females are now displaying excellent qualities; from confirmation, skin quality, size, color and pattern are now winning. Could this be a sign of things to come? 36th, ALL JAPAN KOI SHOW male Mature Champion90bu 36th, ALL JAPAN KOI SHOW Kokugyo prize@90bu male 36th, ALL JAPAN KOI SHOW Kokugyo prize@80bu male 36th, ALL JAPAN KOI SHOW Kokugyo prize@65bu male I got the pics directly from Momotaro's page.

04-19-2005	#8 (permalink)
aquitori Daihonmei Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: DA 408 Posts: 7,419	I think here in the States it would be hard to find a Hobbyist with a Gosanke male over 28" at a show. I mean of very good quality...Mostly females buying for size 5 & 6 awards. Alot of hobbyist are goin down the big female route, but that's understandable everyone wants a big fish. I think the thought of this thread is more on the Japanese side of competition. But if I could get my hands on something of overall quality for really cheap it would have to be Momotaro male, since females command a higher price. In the end it comes down to what comes out at a show, so no one knows. __________________ My opinions are my own and are lived through my experiences with Nishikigoi. The only opinion I have is that the sky is blue and water is wet....

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04-19-2005	#2 (permalink)
RayJordan Jumbo Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 746	Beautiful Koi but they didn't beat female koi. Male koi compete against other male koi in a sperate division after they are about 50 cm. in lenght. in the All Japan SHow.

04-19-2005	#4 (permalink)
MikeM Honmei Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 4,655	The separate division is to be fair to males. It helps overcome the reluctance to bring a fish not likely to prevail over a female. BUT, what is of interest to me is that Momotaro is producing some rather large males with significant volume. I would not venture to suggest that males are as good as females (generally ... there is always some exception), that is an old debate others can have if they wish. Nonetheless, there are strong points among male koi that give some hope that in the future there could be bloodlines aimed at producing dominating males, albeit not likely in the 75cm+ sizes (making that incredible 90bu male koi all the more impressive). The rare male koi with girth lacks the egg bloat that malforms the abdomen and causes a wiggly swim movement. The Beni can be high quality and on fast growing jumbo tosai-types an early finish might not be a bad thing. There are fewer internal health issues with males. Maybe someone like Maeda will produce such a line. Based on the prices for the males exported to the U.S., he already understands that males can mean money. .......makes you wonder about the females such a line would produce, doesn't it?

04-19-2005	#5 (permalink)
aquitori Daihonmei Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: DA 408 Posts: 7,419	I think a male of same size and volume could beat out a female. But it would have to be a really good male. Here locally at shows most of the show entarants are males probably 75%. My male Kohak won Mature Champion at the ZNA in SoCal, beating out way bigger females..I think in the end regardless of sex, overall quality will always be the deciding factor. Ask and judges on this board they know or should know this fact.

04-19-2005	#6 (permalink)
MikeM Honmei Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 4,655	Yes, but that leads to females overwhelmingly.

04-19-2005	#7 (permalink)
dick benbow Honmei Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 4,164	back when i was motivated to win shows the two best awards I ever "took" RGC and tategoi were with male koi. ( had knowledge not the $ funds!) The reserve Grand champ was sanke from toshio sakai and tategoi award ( future GC) was kohaku from Sakai hiroshima. there have been male winners at the all japan show for GC. But as Mike suggests it's fighting with one hand tied behind your back. I do think the original intent of this thread was to give credit to the knowledge and effort expended to produce such male koi.....and i whole heartedly agree!

04-20-2005	#9 (permalink)
RayJordan Jumbo Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 746	I would be surprized if male koi of this quality and size are significantly cheaper. P. Waddington says there are cheap koi, and there are good koi, but there are no good cheap koi. I agree.