Hawaii Mud Ponds

[saratogatan]

I propose that we form a venture, raise a couple of bucks to buy that land, and lease it out for koi boarding. Anyone interested ?

stan

[bekko]

I am sure its not Miliani Town proper, but in that Miliani-Wahiawa area. My guess is that they will be using some of the abandoned ag land over there. The story is they will be using water from the Waiahole Ditch - water diverted from the windward side through the tunnel in the mountains for ag use in central Oahu.

-steve

[Akai-San]

Hey Steve,

Are there any taro farms around? Maybe back in one of the valleys. Like rice farmers, is it conceiveable to have valley waters run through taro patches and other crops to appropriately treat water. Then introduce this water through natural pond filtration to be used in adjoining mud ponds. I guess one would need some means to control the amount of water running through the patches and adjoining pond areas. One massive rain could wash everything away....bummer.

I know our valleys aren't half as inaccessible as Niigata land areas. Just the question about the water. There has got to be a lot of land still available in the valleys....Just need a visionary....

Carl

[bekko]

Akai-San,

I think the issue of growing koi in Hawaii is more about economics than suitable sites. There are ponds around, unused agricultural land for constructing new ponds, well water, and surface waters coming out of the mountains which are nearly as good as underground water. Of course, the cost of land is astronomical, electricity is expensive, salaries are high, and feed must be imported.

I see beautiful koi coming out of Korea which are very inexpensive. With our costs, I do not see how we could produce a comparable product at that price. I think Hawaii's competition in the koi market would not be Japan, but places like Korea, China/Taiwan, Indonesia, mainland US, etc. We would get to compete in the market for cheap fish, but we would not get to compete in the market for expensive fish.

Japan also has high land costs and high operating costs. However, Japan has the reputation and generations of experience. Show a customer two fish which appear identical and tell him this one was grown by Toshio Sakai in Japan and this one was grown by Joe Blow in Hawaii. Which one will they buy? They SHOULD prefer the Japanese fish. The breeder's reputation and eye for culling determines how the fish will develop over time.

You can buy the genetics, given a couple of decades you can develop the eye, but you will still not have the reputation. Fine koi is like any type of fine art. The perception is the reality. A famous artist is always going to command a higher price for his work than an up-start. Talent and quality are not the only determining factors.

You see the Japanese sending parts of their operations offshore. We have heard mention of Japanese koi operations in various parts of Asia and now Kodama is considering coming to Hawaii. However, these are still Japanese companies and they will make sure it is all very seamless for the dealers searching for Japanese fish. They did the same thing with the pearl industry and it took a very long time for non-Japanese companies to make in-roads into the international pearl markets.

-steve hopkins

[B.Scott]

All too true Steve. I listen to the stories of people setting up mud ponds and breeding fish with mixed feelings. Recreating the environment is never the problem. On the one hand I applaud the attempt. Everything has to start someplace. But expectations of being able to compete with Japanese dealers with generations of experience are nothing less than naive.

I have a little bit of knowledge of how the Japanese system of apprenticeship works and I am certain these people aren't going to be giving their hard earned wisdom away any time soon. If foreign (i.e. non Japanese) breeders expect to compete they will do so by rediscovering the wheel on their own from the ground up. It might happen at some point but not in our generation.

Anyone can get a good set of parent fish and hatch fry. Putting them in mud ponds and growing them out isn't rocket science. But if they haven't been taught all the ins and outs of selecting which fish to cull and which one to keep they don't sand a chance of raising anything better than pond grade fish at best.

[Akai-San]

Steve,

Not really looking for land or ponds to breed and sell fish. More importantly to me is to have the facilities to be able to learn through various applications. Still along the lines of practicing to be a hobbiest. Understand that other countries have jumped on the band wagon to mass produce koi and I'm sure over time they may get better and better. From a hobbiest point of view, I'm simply looking at personal mudponds for growing out Japanese bred tosai, nisai, sansai. Maybe 7-10 fish in each pond.