Male Koi

[MikeM]

It is typically said that male koi finish young, and fade early in their life spans. In weighing whether to choose male or female koi for a pond, this statement is quite material. We know that males do not generally become as large as females and only rarely have the girth necessary to create the bold impression of a mature female.

My personal observation has been that male koi are more graceful and agile swimmers. The bulk carried by females does not allow the same easy movement in water. For most hobbyists, a 26"-28" fish is about all their ponds can handle. These sizes can be obtained by males, although I think 24"-26" is probably the more common experience. I have had some males crap out at 3 or 4 years of age, as has occurred with some females, but I have also had males retain good condition for years. Since my experience is limited, it could be that I have just been lucky to have a few males who kept their attractive qualities. So, I have accepted the general statements as being typical of male koi development and decline, subject to rare exception.

Then along comes the most recent electronic Rinko with an article extolling the virtues of male koi. The article highlights the detraction of yellowish, thicker skin that places males at a disadvantage compared to females; but extolls the virtues of conformation of select males, especially the one that has won Jumbo Male Champion at recent All Japan shows in Tokyo. The article leaves the impression that males do not peak quickly and fade; but, if given optimal conditions often reserved only for females, can maintain a high level of finish for years, while females are likely to fade due to the burden of egg production.

Thoughts on the ability of males to be maintained at a high level compared to females? Is the notion of "fast to finish and fast to fade" inaccurate? .... I am not implying that males are as good a choice as females. (Perhaps for a particular hobbyist in a particular situation, they are.) Rather, I'm wondering if the "fast to fade" knock against males is really accurate, or perhaps it once was, but not so true today?

The picture posted is of a then 5 year old male, now in his 7th growing season, who looks as good or better now. ("Magnifico", my daughter's favorite, shown in the Polyurea Pond thread in a bag held by HenryC.) A yellowed head, etc., but no fading from his "peak", albeit a lower "peak" than a quality fish.

[dick benbow]

sex aside, there are a few extraordianary individuals bred in each spawning. These koi reach farther than their brothers ( or sisters) and are worthy of years of appreciation above normal expected limits especially if male. I'm thinking of a hiroshima sakai kohaku that looks female. got up to 28 inches in a minature pond after 8 years and was recently sold when the owner retired from the hobby.
This koi looks better than most 3 year old males. in fact it was put in a pond marginally better than where it came from and is getting better as we speak.

I think any outstanding individual regardless of sex is worthy.

I recall a few years back when a certain american hobbyists put a gigiantic fee down for a tosai sanke of toshio sakai.'s It was the most fabulous koi i had ever seen to that time. The next year it was sexed as male and GIVEN to TOM as a gift. Lordy, would I have loved to have gotten a hold of that koi. Perfect show specimen, capable of competing with the girls and no female problems!

[marco]

It's not easy to enter in a tread with two Oyagoï like you, anyway I also notice like everybody that my female are growing faster then the male, but I also notice then when I try to feed them by hand, the first to come are always female.

Is that because with the developement of ovary they need more energy and are more hungry then male ?

[dick benbow]

Marco if I was to quess, I think it has to do with size. The bigger they get the more tame and friendly. I do notice that it tends to be the girls that do tend to be friendlier?

[JasonS]

The larger koi do tend to be the hand-feeders but at the same time the breed does enter into it, IMHO.

My big male showa hand feeds. His brothers do not yet. My wife's sumigoromo hand fed within the first week of getting her home. But none of the male kohakus hand feed, even though they are roughly the same size as the sumigoromo. The female tancho kohaku sometimes hand feeds, but not often.

The GR Showa hand feeds; she is a very smart fish IMHO. My two doitsu, one male gin matsuba and one female yamabuki also hand feed but the female is friendlier. The female kin tancho showa also hand feeds.

The comfort level of the fish with the pond and the owner also enters into it. My wife insists that the fish don't hand feed from her but do from me. Not sure what to make of that, except that I'm usually the one interacting with them anyway.

[shiromujigirl]

My oldest koi in the show string is a male. This is the 7 year old multiple BV champ The Horny Yamabuki. The fish is the color of a deep yellow daffodil, is built long and curvy like a hen koi and his luster is deep. This is the senior koi in my pond. He survived my do stupid things then doctor them to death stage years ago.

If you have males of varieties that are greedy feeders and good growers like Ogons and Chagoi, you can have great bodies on these males, guarenteed.

[Brian]

Quote: Originally Posted by shiromujigirl This is the 7 year old multiple BV champ The Horny Yamabuki.

SMG,

As in Texas horny toad, or the other variety? Good to see you back...where've ya been?

[Doug Ward]

AMEN, Dick....

Purdin is frustrated with the " male no good" mentality. perpetuated by the Five Fish Blunderers of KoiDumb. I'll refrain from commenting on " how frustrated"

A good koi, is a good koi, irregardless of gender.
Most of the higher quality koi produced these days are very difficult to sex by the "standard" methods used.

I've never seen an agg bound male with ovarian tumours..
I've seen and purchased, beautiful Nissa females that "turned out" male... only because I go to an extreme to determine sex and sort them.

My largest, and oldest, fish is a male budo.
Select Five fish blunderers have proclaimed it's female gender.

Buy young koi for body shape and forget the rest.
I only post my more expensive fish by guaroooonteed sex.
Unfortunatey dimwits will buy the girl, even if far inferior to the male, because the Ragazines and Five Fish Blunderers proclaim the male as inferior.

At the recent Orlando show there was a male brought in that was wonderful.
Tim Waddington was brought over to give the final determination on the sex of HIM.
FFB'z had a moment of confusion so an expert was brought in.

I'm sure the boobery of Five Fish WonderDumb gasped at the fact that the final determination was a lowly, garbage, male fish.... even though their "pond" ( all 3,000 gallons)full with five fish, female fish, were likely inferior to this skuzzy male,, since he was finally " out of the closet" as a lowly, wortheless, soon to go bad, male.

People sometimes ask the sex of sansei.. I tell them..' You figger it out"
Get the bookie and the Ragazines and take it from there.

A quality Nishikigoi is a quality nishikigoi.
Period.

Most goofs couldn't keep a large, quality koi alive long enough for it to deteriorate anyhoo in those oversized bathtub/spa's they call "koi ponds"
3 foot koi. 12-15 foot long pond.. aint that special.....

Quote: Originally Posted by dick benbow sex aside, there are a few extraordianary individuals bred in each spawning. These koi reach farther than their brothers ( or sisters) and are worthy of years of appreciation above normal expected limits especially if male. I'm thinking of a hiroshima sakai kohaku that looks female. got up to 28 inches in a minature pond after 8 years and was recently sold when the owner retired from the hobby. This koi looks better than most 3 year old males. in fact it was put in a pond marginally better than where it came from and is getting better as we speak. I think any outstanding individual regardless of sex is worthy. I recall a few years back when a certain american hobbyists put a gigiantic fee down for a tosai sanke of toshio sakai.'s It was the most fabulous koi i had ever seen to that time. The next year it was sexed as male and GIVEN to TOM as a gift. Lordy, would I have loved to have gotten a hold of that koi. Perfect show specimen, capable of competing with the girls and no female problems!

[dick benbow]

I always enjoy your comments and look for them when we're lucky enough to get a post. Looks like we have similar passions and "hot buttons"! (lol)

[shiromujigirl]

Male koi! I love them!Lets see, I have four great big young jumbo gosanke females right now I have been growing out. They are three, four and five year olds. They eat and eat like pigs. I have been waiting for YEARS, and I will still wait for more years, for their hi to turn red. Yes, they swim gracefully. Yes, every year something might go terribly wrong with their ovaries because they are girls and Yes, their hi is still orange!

Meanwhile their bretherin give me solace. Their shiro may be a hard white, but what fiery red. And they race around like stallions. Feed em well enough and they are not exactly skinny either.

Why the discrimination and disappointment in males? Let us appreciate males as males. We don't look at our show bulls and say Oh MY God! He has a hump and horns!... or... if only he didn't have those distracting parts! We don't look at our stallions and say if only he didn't have that big muscly jaw and that cresty neck. If only he didn't prance around snorting like that. Vive la differance!