Sakai Showa for Comment

[Bancherd]

I am worried about the sumi on the face. I have a feeling it would not come up much more than we we see currently.

[dtbh]

Personally I wouldn't buy this showa. Don't like the body (small for a nissai, thin tail peduncle), the beni tinge and quality (commonly seen in Sakai's showa), nor the pattern. This is only my opinion and I hope I did not insult anyone.

On the subject of Sakai's showa, has anyone seen a really good showa from them? I must say I have yet to be impressed by them. But their kohaku and, lately sanke, are really yummy.

[dick benbow]

I had hoped by now we would have heard maurice's opionion but before this thread slips away, I'd like to point out my style involving questions.



I don't like to use harsh comments and I like to involve others so many views will come to a consensus for those who like to learn and feel they have not yet gotten to a point where they (eventually) will contribute. it surprised me that no one followed up on my comment about the value of PH regarding this koi. had that question been forwarded you probably would had heard my concern about the depth of the beni. With High PH this koi would have gone
Bright red immediately and then you would have seen a disappearance of the hi plate.

many koi keepers that visit here don't have dream ponds. Nor can then afford to buy the top tategoi from genetically superior koi. For someone this showa would be a nice koi. The tail tube may suggest a smaller koi, but water quality and raising skill can keep this koi going at it's best for many years.

I think it's important for all of us to share the dreams of top hobbiests and to be able to learn what it takes to bring a top quality koi to size and condition.
whether or not we ever ascend to that position hopefully we will learn to take what we can get and develop it to it's maximum potential. For my money that's a real koi keeper.

before I went into my asagi craz, I spent many years with showa. What i loved about them was the chance to have the black finish out in such a way
as to prove a valuable gamble. If a breeder sells a tosai or nisai, he doesn't know 100% what will happen. My koi kichi bought the top one from a breeder a few years ago as nisai and raised it there two years. At the end of that time the breeder wouldn't even talk to my buddy about the koi which my friend demanded to have released immediately in the shinano river. ( it was pretty bad) In a proper pond it can very well take up to 8 years for it to develop. So with showa I suggest you find a kohaku pattern you like and good black on the head and shoulder area. then be prepared to wait. oh, by the way with the showa destined to the river. It got shipped home to the koi keepers pond where it looked terrible for two years and was called a showhaku by the owner. the black changed into round black spots and stayed that way for a year. then suddenly this ugly duckling began to emerge and change into the best looking showa I'd seen in a long time. End of story, ....
no it never finished but was eaten along with a omoyo hasgawa kohaku that took 3rd in the BKKS national by an otter. morale of the story. Buy the best showa you can afford, keep in well in quality ( and safe) surroundings and don't give up on it till it reaches 8! ( I still think I could keep the showa pictured well enough to hang on to what it has and develop into a pretty nice
competitive koi! )

[mulberryjen]

Quote: Originally Posted by dick benbow ....My koi kichi bought the top one from a breeder a few years ago as nisai and raised it there two years. At the end of that time the breeder wouldn't even talk to my buddy about the koi which my friend demanded to have released immediately in the shinano river. ( it was pretty bad).............. oh, by the way with the showa destined to the river. It got shipped home to the koi keepers pond where it looked terrible for two years and was called a showhaku by the owner. the black changed into round black spots and stayed that way for a year. then suddenly this ugly duckling began to emerge and change into the best looking showa I'd seen in a long time. End of story, .... no it never finished but was eaten along with a omoyo hasgawa kohaku that took 3rd in the BKKS national by an otter.

Only in koi hobby would such a fairy-tale saga end with the ugly duckling getting eaten by an otter.........yikes! Immediately this photo of demonic looking otter from most recent National Geographic came to my mind - except chomping on a high-dollar showa!

Main idea of post is a point well taken, Dick. Hobbyists are at all different levels, with different budgets and goals. Koi-keeping is a continual learning process and challenge for us all!

[dick benbow]

Jen, I think you mental and physical picture got it right! there is a little demon in those eyes!

[dtbh]

Hi Dick,

Point taken. I know there are many levels in this hobby and there are personal likes and dislikes. I also note that in the forum I log on to, every koi posted has only good reviews eventhough some were otherwise. I thought for all to learn we should look at kois from all angles to get a balanced view and let the readers make their own judgement. That was why I have said it was only my personal assessment of this koi.

Like I have said if I had insulted anyone please accept my sincere apologies. I now know when to shut up.

Let me end by telling you another horror story. This breeder just bought a prized 80cm Kindai Showa male and placed him immediately into his mudpond. The very next day the middle half of the showa's body was gone.

Cheers, dtbh

[jjkon]

I believe honest opinion will benefit eveyone because there are many new hobbyists here including myself.


John

[paulino88]

Guys, your comments are greatly aprreciated

Agree with some of you that beni on this looked good as compared to beni on other sakai showa since it is often their main weakness. Kohaku pattern is matter of preference and it greatly depend on the placement of sumi as you rightly point out. Hence understood the importance of pH in 7.4 - 7.6. Luckily my pond pH in hovering around 7 - 8 at this moment so still have chance to maintain the beni and enhanching sumi.

This fish will definetly looked better than present wt the appearance of sumi. But how good will it be, may be average or champion material ? Like Dick said, 8 is the limit to see how it finished patience patience

Certainly i dont mind if it will limit its size to 28inch but i m a bit worry wt the tail tube and its growth rate. To clarify Mike's question is not the angle of the shot but in presence it looked bulging in front and thin near tail (typical shiro utsuri body i guess). Personally i find fish with this kind of feature wont have amazing growth rate because it tend to grow upward and sideways(broad shoulder and back) but lengthwise development is average. Not too discredit anyone, i attached a picture of maruyama kohak wt the feature i lastly talked about. fyi, growth rate is 5 cm in 2 months (average i guess)? Majority of tosai (sakai) in the pond get a 4 - 5 cm growth rate per month.

[paulino88]

Quote: Originally Posted by Maurice Can I be honest? Maurice.

Yes please, i need all the reasons not to buy this showa

[paulino88]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bancherd I am worried about the sumi on the face. I have a feeling it would not come up much more than we we see currently.

If you dont mind, pls explain what make you think that sumi wont come up more than we see currently ??