ok gang, need your help....

[dick benbow]

It seems a 'landscaper" has built a pond for someone interested in koi last year. All of the koi are sick and dieing. The filtration is a box 6x10 x6 filled to the top with pea gravel. Everything has gone anaroebic. This victum was charged close to $60,000.00 for the job.

he wants to go back to the landscaper and prove that his engineering is killing his fish. Here's where I need your help, can you provide a copy of a published report that details what happens to peagravel when allowed to go without air.
Frustrating for me as i can explain why and what to do to correct it but he has to have something in writting by a koi expert? ( this is hard for me gang not to be "recognized" for my contribution of 25 years) but I could use any help you might remember reading something that you could copy me?

stuff like this really gets to me, But I quess P.T. Barnum knew what he was talking about....

[Steve W]

Hi all


Sorry Dick wish i could help

J P R might know.


Steve W

[aquitori]

$60K...Damn that is alot of money!!! Will surf the internet of answers.

[kingkong]

No expert but just thinking what Judge Judy would need to here to convince her there was incompetent work and material sold to a nonsuspecting client.
To the defendant:
Is there a code of design and construction of a pond filter?
Show me three other systems exactly like this one you built that work
properly and have lasted a reasonable time, say 3 years.
Show that septic tanks perform one function and pond filters do another
To the plaintiff:
Did you visit any jobs done by contractor and observe their performance?
Did you ask three owners if they were satisfied with the results?
Did contractor design the filter? Then if so did he guaranty that it would work?

[MikeM]

Dick: I think the old AKCA books that were a collection of re-print articles had articles explaining about having to clean the gravel etc. That sort of filter was "cutting edge" in 1960s! Anyway, Waddington's Koi Kichi is the best on principles of filtration, but does not waste much space condemning the negatives of gravel filters. The Interpret Encyclopedia of Koi is terrible on the subject of filtration ... lots of words that signify nothing. Barron's Koi: Living Jewels of The Orient is "even-handed" giving the impression that gravel is a fine media!! But, Nick Fletcher's The Ultimate Koi has a nice chapter on the background history that starts off with: "The Undergravel Age", and explains the progress made in getting away from it. I like the concluding sentence: "Commercial versions of the undergravel filter for ponds are still available, but it is significant that these are sold with the option of a maintenance contract so that, when they block, someone else gets to do the dirty work!"

Amazing to me in looking through the books I've collected how terribly outdated they are. The Koshihara method seems so much more practical than the junk methods used in the West before the Brits' innovations made the hobby possible without mud ponds.

Good Luck!

[dick benbow]

thanks mike, for checking. I'm hopeful someone will find soemthing..

(judge Judy, Thanks I needed that! )

[Nancy M.]

Quote: Originally Posted by dick benbow It seems a 'landscaper" has built a pond for someone interested in koi last year. All of the koi are sick and dieing. The filtration is a box 6x10 x6 filled to the top with pea gravel. Everything has gone anaroebic. This victum was charged close to $60,000.00 for the job. he wants to go back to the landscaper and prove that his engineering is killing his fish. Here's where I need your help, can you provide a copy of a published report that details what happens to peagravel when allowed to go without air. Frustrating for me as i can explain why and what to do to correct it but he has to have something in writting by a koi expert? ( this is hard for me gang not to be "recognized" for my contribution of 25 years) but I could use any help you might remember reading something that you could copy me? stuff like this really gets to me, But I quess P.T. Barnum knew what he was talking about....

Contact Burt Ballou, he has gone to court on several cases like this and has WON for the homeowners everytime.

[Valarc]

Could you maybe get in touch with the folks at UGA? Their specific area of research might not be filtration, but I'm sure they can explain why gravel in filters is bad, and coming from someone at a university who works with fish all the time, it's gotta hold some weight.