Water qualities

[Tom C]

What makes good water qualities?

Is it filtration?

Is it water changes?

Is it stocking levels?

Is it pond design?

Is it the food your feeding your koi?

I'm guessing all of the above.

How can one make sure they have the best water qualities?

What if your water qualities are bad out of the tap?

How do we go about fixing them?

[dick benbow]

Water quality is the responsibility of the water keeper. That would be us!

Municipalities present a product that meets local and state requirerments and then their responsibility ends.

owners with wells go thru a health monitor system for start up approval and for
maintenance.

In both these cases we need to know what the water contains at the source
to make our plan for filtration or storage etc.

Our filter system needs to reflect the source. The obvious would be what does the city put in the water, chlorine or chloramine? We need to dssapate that.
Well water? Even if the water contains no high amounts of anything it needs to be oxygenated before being added as it comes out of the ground.

Different color varieties have different needs. Show fish need to be prepared in one kind of water, different from growth concerns. If you don't show your koi, you may have to find a middle compromise between growth or finish. Also stocking levels come into play.

as in most things koi, knowledge is king!

My motto is over filter and under stock

[GazKoi]

Ill go with dick on this one especially with all his knowledge

Well i unfortunately have some tar that comes from out water source with a TDS of around 520-550 which is not always the best for koi but hopefully over the coming weeks i will be trying to combat that with the use of an RO unit

So with a bit of luck and a lot of water testing i would like to bring that down a bit to something that does not leave a bad taste in the koi's mouth lol!!

[dick benbow]

WATER IN ORDER TO KEEP HEALTHY NEEDS TO MOVE. Dead water is not something you want in your pond. I'm not talking about current. Working your koi 24/7 works against you AND THEM. THEY NEED A QUIET PLACE TO REST.

We're talking about thru put into your filter.

It's a dance but you want lots of air in your filtration, either by pump or trickle/bakki. Creating an aerobic condition in your entire pond is paramont
in importance. It used to be a few years ago that turn over rates per hour have increased from every 4 to every two and now even less with certain types of filtration.

Koi do not like raw water, or water that is tired and depleted of necessary minerals.

filtration when plumbed should be in situ that it can be bypassed to allow for toxic chemicals ( we call them medicine for our koi) to play out in the main pond. Preserving an aged filter is money in the bank.

Water quality is also a product of fish load and what you feed them. Feeding a 40% plus protein food at at lower temperatures means an upset tummy for our wet pets and poor digestion which in turn makes our filters work harder.

[dick benbow]

There are many ways to adjust water depending on what you need to eliminate.
Water conditioners, Reverse osmosis and others can remove harmful items like iron etc.

Pond construction and design is imperitive to have water movement to prevent dead areas.

A constant trickle in of new safe water at a rate of 24/7 is so important.

What's important to understand with water quality if we were graphting is not so much as it hits our mark but that if it's 10% too High or low off the mark but consistant-that what's important. if the graph looks like mountain peaks and valley's your fish have a problem of too much swing. If it's a straight line, that much better then up and down!

[dinh]

I think all of that and I think DB covers all answers, thx Dick.

I know many koi hobbyists trying to learn how to take care of
koi or how to pick a good tategoi before learning how to take
good care of water. Hoping Koi hoppyists should take good care of
water before trying to take good care of koi.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tom C What makes good water qualities? Is it filtration? Is it water changes? Is it stocking levels? Is it pond design? Is it the food your feeding your koi? I'm guessing all of the above. How can one make sure they have the best water qualities? What if your water qualities are bad out of the tap? How do we go about fixing them?

[Dale Torok]

Great points, Dick. Dinh, your comments remind me of something I took to heart after 'working' at keeping koi my first few years. As I was searching for ways to do it better, one of my mentors said, "Don't think of yourself as a koi keeper. Think of yourself a 'water keeper'. If you'll keep your water healthy, the water will take care of the fish."


I have tried to plan for water movement, water turnover, aeration and have both submerged and open air trickle tower filtration coupled with the aerated tumbling K1 media. The first 3 years of keeping koi with inadequate filtration had me dealing with ulcers, other various health issues. DOCS and dead spots. The last 2 years after redesigning and upgrading the filtration have been problem free. It's FUN to keep healthy koi. They look and act better. The alternative is the pits.

Dale

[dinh]

Very happy to hear that Dale. Nothing can be better for koi keepers to have excellent quaility water in their ponds. We just can't have "koi appreciation" and peaceful mind when dealing with koi ulcers or other diseases.

One of major problem for many new koi keepers is that they can't wait to see
koi in their NEW ponds when water is not ready yet, ending up to kill many kois.

--Dinh

Quote: Originally Posted by Dale Torok Great points, Dick. Dinh, your comments remind me of something I took to heart after 'working' at keeping koi my first few years. As I was searching for ways to do it better, one of my mentors said, "Don't think of yourself as a koi keeper. Think of yourself a 'water keeper'. If you'll keep your water healthy, the water will take care of the fish." I have tried to plan for water movement, water turnover, aeration and have both submerged and open air trickle tower filtration coupled with the aerated tumbling K1 media. The first 3 years of keeping koi with inadequate filtration had me dealing with ulcers, other various health issues. DOCS and dead spots. The last 2 years after redesigning and upgrading the filtration have been problem free. It's FUN to keep healthy koi. They look and act better. The alternative is the pits. Dale

[MikeM]

Water is much more complex than the characteristics we typically test. The usual tests may be "perfect", but fish still do not thrive due to the presence or absence of a mineral not tracked. The Niigata breeders have had generational knowledge that ponds fed by the waters of a particular mountain are better than ponds elsewhere. It is all melted snow and rainwater, but it has flowed over and through different soils and rocks, and has been changed. We can duplicate the parameters for which we test, but that does not mean the water is the same. It only means the pH, alkalinity, iron, etc are the same. But even then it may not really be the same, because the form of the iron present in one body of water may differ from that of another, but the amount detected by a test is the same...but it is really different ferrous/ferric molecules.

I think TomC is correct that everything on his list is a contributing factor, but no list is going to be complete.

I think the first step for the koikeeper who has progressed to the point of truly being concerned about water is to decide whether his/her source water is acceptable or not. If it is acceptable, then the goal becomes to maintain the pond water in a condition as close to the source as can be done. The task is not easy, since deterioration begins the moment it is added to the pond, but water changes (or constant flow) can accomplish much of the task. If the source water is not acceptable, the hobbyist has to decide whether they are willing to devote the continual effort required to re-create the water and maintain the characteristics of the re-created water on a constant basis. For example, a reverse osmosis system may be used to produce exactly the water desired, but it will do no good if membranes are allowed to become blocked or if used only sporadically. Fluctuating water is bad water, no matter how "good" the test readings at the limit of the pendulum's swing, because that just magnifies how "bad" it is when the pendulum swings to the other side.

Stability is important to the fish, even if the Boron content is slightly less than some ideal decided by somebody.

....In Florida, like elsewhere, we complain about the tap water. The same water, without chlorine, is sold as Dasani, Zephyrhills, etc., etc. Sometimes we do not appreciate that our greatest asset in fishkeeping is the simple tap, and not the showy filter. [Of course, I do wish the pH was lower and the hardness less. ]