Defect In Dragon Pumps

[SCVkoiboy]

Here's an interesting story: When I was at William Lim's shop, he gave me a demonstration of why his pumps are better. I didn't look at any graphs or curves. He was gonna SHOW me personally.

He demonstrated one of his pumps and a competitors pump on equal lines with the same hp. He had a flow meter on both. His pump did have more gph than the other, but we all know that doesn't, by itself, prove anything. As Tom mentioned, head pressure plays a part. What was funny was that I asked him what his pump was rated at for gph while he was hooking it up. When he had it going, I looked at the flow meter and it was pumping less water than he said it should. I asked him why and he proceeded to tap the flow meter and said, "Oh, this thing's been broken for a while." and quickly shut the pumps off.

This says nothing about the quality of his pumps, but it made me wonder about his ethics and integrity. It reminded me of a conman getting caught in a lie. I hope his pumps are better than his character.

PS. I will call you tommorrow Steve. I did not receive any shipping order to get the pump to you so it is still here.

[gregbickal]

I have a friend here in town that had a pond built by some professionals (I was going to build it but I backed out). This guy has a real koi pond (with 2 nexus) powered by Sequence pumps. Then also a goldfish pond, powered by 2 Wave pumps.

One of the Wave pumps is sucking air. I told him about the problems other people have been having.

I hope he gets it replaced.

edited to say "I hope he gets it figured out". Sorry, I made an assumption.

[schildkoi]

Greg, you say:

Quote: (I was going to build it but I backed out).

You "backed out"? I tried to set you up on that build and you BLEW IT. Instead of sticking to the proposal as submitted you attempted to "sell him" on your methods. The owner felt more comfortable with someone who actually knew Koi and ponds instead of "make shift" and "jury rigged" construction techniques more typical of DIY watergardens from a paperback guide.

If he has a problems with the "system", I am sure that the contractor involved will rectify the problem, he is reputable. Noticed, I did NOT assume it was a pump problem. Unlike many, I withhold my opinions until such time as I can base it on factual evidence, you see, "sucking air" can be the result of many different factors, not just a fault in a pump. That is the difference between you and I Greg, knowledge and experience.

Steve Childers

[Tim C]

Quote: Originally Posted by SCVkoiboy This says nothing about the quality of his pumps, but it made me wonder about his ethics and integrity. It reminded me of a conman getting caught in a lie. I hope his pumps are better than his character.

Seems a couple folks sure are going at William. It is a shame that you choose to attack him in this way. I can speak for William's ethics and integrity - SPOT ON!

William will not engage in an argument on any board, which I do not blame him. It is unfortunate that, even after the pump has been replaced, and we are pending test results of the other pump, you and others continue to down a person who does not deserve such a campaign against him.

Let Steve and Roark do their testing - they are both honorable and honest and I am sure, good, bad, or indifferent, they will let everyone know of the results.

I have sold in excess of 200 Wave/Dragon Pumps this year alone - out of them, only TWO have had issues - one from shipping damage - the other a faulty motor. In both instances, the customers were taken care of.

[schildkoi]

Like I told Bickle above, I am witholding judgement on the Dragon until I have a chance to check out and test the pump. Based on Tim's numbers, that is a less than 1% overall failure rate and the 2 cited seem to be easily recognizeable as to the exact problem. Other problems are not so easily identifiable as to the exact problem since "symptoms" in and of themselves can be caused from a variety of issues. Standard bench testing (the norm) may or may not verify a problem to a specific cause either.

I became interested in the specific problem out of curiosity and the instinct to understand the variety of possible contributing factors/causes possible and my desire to "investigate". I've heard both sides of the "problem" and understand both sides frustrations. Regardless of the testing outcome, SVC gets a new pump and is hopefully satisfied. If their is a problem with the pump, William get's the documentation necessary to go back against a sub contracter (Waterway if the housing is bad as an example) AND a new procedural testing guideline should similar issues (should they exist) become apparent in the future.

What do I get? Besides a bunch of headaches? Nothing other than hopefully some satisfaction that more people are happy after I am done than before I stuck my nose in.

Steve

[Koiphenator]

While it surely is possible that this particular pump is defective, it surely does not seem to be the norm.

GOOD NEWS from Thom Blischok!
We just received a personal call from Tom Blischok (Phoenix, Arizona).
He has the Dragon Series pumps installed in his home set-up.
The pumps have been running for over 3 years, 24 hrs. a day and have not had any trouble. (MORE THAN 26,000 HOURS without a single fail).

Now, That's Real Performance and good test results

[gregbickal]

Wow Steve, that was harsh . Im sorry, instead of me saying he should have it replaced, I should have said he should have it looked at. My bad.

Now as far as the rest of your post, I'll keep on topic and PM you.

[SCVkoiboy]

It is pretty clear that William's friends will defend him vigorously. I, too, might defend him if I sold 200 of his pumps in one year and profited from them. I assume you, Tim, have made a pretty good income selling William's pumps. HMMMM, what might your motive be for clearing William's name?

I am a hobbyist who has no connections and simply explained my experience with my particular pump. Quite frankly, other than the lousy customer service, I like William's pumps. That is why I agreed to get a new pump instead of a refund (the new pump is working great by the way).

Steve's post responding to Greg's comments are also disturbing to me. You hold judgement about the pumps, but you immediately talk about the system as if you already came to the conclusion that it was the system that was his problem. I hope I am wrong, but I read a little bias into your comments as well, Steve. In any case, I will still send you the pump as soon as I get the paperwork to ship it to you. I hope you will do an honest evaluation of the pump and that you are not just another of William's friends trying to clear his name.

Steve and Tim both have good relationships with William and I think that is great. They can hopefully help others in dealing with William. But don't discount my (and other end users) experience, either. It is as real as yours. I hope others will read this string and judge for themselves whether they want to do business with William (I would do the same if I were in their shoes).

[Tim C]

Quote: Originally Posted by SCVkoiboy This says nothing about the quality of his pumps, but it made me wonder about his ethics and integrity. It reminded me of a conman getting caught in a lie. I hope his pumps are better than his character.

I made no secret of my business relationship with William, and for the most part, I have remained silent - but when someone is accused of being a "CONMAN" I do take exception to that.

Pretty strong words.

As for Steve and his dealings in this, if you have to question them, or those of Roark, you obviously do not know these two individuals or their reputation in the community. Both are STAND UP individuals who happen to know engineering and will tell it like it is, good bad, or indifferent as I also commented in my "DEFENSE" of William.

I do not doubt that you had an issue with the pump - never have. We would all like to know the "why" behind this issue.

[Valarc]

Quote: Originally Posted by SCVkoiboy It is pretty clear that William's friends will defend him vigorously. I, too, might defend him if I sold 200 of his pumps in one year and profited from them. I assume you, Tim, have made a pretty good income selling William's pumps. HMMMM, what might your motive be for clearing William's name?

Let me tell you a little story from the Atlanta show...

Tim's booth was set up right beside another vendor (Trevor - I forget the name of the company). These are two guys who were in many ways selling competing products - Lim filters versus the nexus and box filters Trevor was selling, Lim VMS'es versus EA's sieve. Yet, when Tim had someone ask him about a watergarden filter, he walked over to Trevor's booth and pointed out one of the small box filters. When Trevor was loading up his trailer, Tim helped him carry his gear.

My point? These guys are in direct competition, yet they were giving each other help and worrying about what's right for the customers, not their own interests. Tim could have tried to sell the watergarden guy on a lim filter, but he walked him to Trevor's booth instead. That's not a very wise business decision, is it? These guys aren't cutthroat, they don't bash the competition... in fact they sometimes even HELP the competition. You're sitting here questioning Tim's integrity when you've probably never even MET the man.

I DON'T know William, but I have met Tim, and he came across as nothing but a great guy who'd bend over backwards to help you. Please don't sit here and make those kinds of insinuations about someone you've never met, just because you're disgruntled over a single customer service problem.