Defect In Dragon Pumps

[schildkoi]

As you already know, William's guy, Elliot, forgot to include the UPS documents for shipping the Dragon to me. I've talked with William and left you a phone message. Still awaiting your call.

As far as my post to Greg, Let's just say I hate "piling on" especially when their was no factual evidence presented by Greg. As most know, pumps can suck air for a variety of reasons and just because a pump is sucking air does not "automatically" mean that the pump is defective as Greg alluded to in his post. There's other issues involved as well that are better left off of the board concerning this pond and other incidents.

I'm glad the new Dragon is functioning properly. Now let's find out why the first one wouldn't.

Steve

[SCVkoiboy]

Tim,

You shouldn't take exception to my comments about William since they are based on my experience with him. You have your experience with him as a person who does business with him and I welcome your comments. But, if you are going to criticize me, have some backbone and accept some criticism yourself. I am not hear to get in a pissing contest with experienced koi folks who post here all the time. I would be foolish to do so since you certainly have more friends here than I do (as evidenced by Valarc's comments). My purpose was to express my experience and my thoughts. You chose to make it personal instead of just stating your experience and letting folks hear both sides. As for Steve or Roark, I don't know either of them but I have heard good things about Steve so I hope he will conduct a fair test. That is all.

If you want to step into the ring and defend William, fine. But expect to take a few shots for it. You may very well be an honest person, but I only know you from your post and so I based my response on your comments. I have no issues with you (or Steve or Roark), but I do have issues with William. So, allow me to express those experiences and I will let you express yours and leave it at that.

[Tim C]

Quote: Originally Posted by SCVkoiboy Tim, So, allow me to express those experiences and I will let you express yours and leave it at that.

Fair enough

[Valarc]

My comments have nothing to do with friendship with Tim - they are based on what I saw at the show. I'm not here defending my buddy, I'm defending someone who had his integrity unfairly questioned. I did know Tim a bit before the show from forums, but if you were making the same accusations toward Trevor (who I've never spoken to outside that one show) my comments would be exactly the same.

You seem to be going out of your way to make this issue about everything it shouldn't be about. It's about my friendship with Tim, it's about whether you can trust Steve, it's about Tim being biased...

The real issue here is a bunch of people coming out and going above and beyond what they need to do, solely to figure out the source of your problem, so conflicts like this DON'T happen in the future. You seem to want to jump down the throats of the very people who are trying to help you. I'm starting to think that if I were in William's shoes and you took this attitude with me, I would not be motivated to give you very good customer service either. For five seconds, stop making accusations and thank these folks for becoming involved in fixing your problem, instead of acting like a child and bashing them.


P.S. No I'm NOT saying it's appropriate to give bad service based on a customer's attitude - but my grandma always said you'll catch more bees with honey than vinegar.

[SCVkoiboy]

That's ironic, Valarc, because your view of customer service is inconsistent with your grandma's teachings.

I merely posted my experience with a defective pump and the lack of service provided by William Lim. I respect others' rights to post their feelings about my post just as I would expect the same. I have no issue with Tim, Steve or Roark.

To correct your statement, nobody on this board is doing anything to help me with my problem (arguably, Steve actually has). Steve will test the pump, not for my benefit. It is for William's benefit so he can determine if he (William) has a design or manufacturing problem with his pumps.

William certainly isn't doing anything for my benefit even though he agreed to send me a new pump, otherwise he would have taken care of this a year ago. He is doing it now because he is receiving "bad press" which may affect his business.

I applaud Steve for taking the initiative to test the pump and respect Tim's willingness to defend William, but you...well, I'm not sure why you are posting quite frankly.

Let's get back to the original problem of a defective Dragon pump and let Steve do his test and go from there.

[Valarc]

My view is not inconsistent - I said I would be INCLINED to give you worse service if you were acting that way - I didn't say I would actually do it. I'm inclined to give my cat away when it craps on the rug, but I don't do it.

As to why I'm posting - I see far too much accusation going on lately, and I don't like to see you sit here and question everyone and their mother's motives because you had a bad experience. Your argument is with William, no one else - yet you keep making nasty insinuations about other people.

You say steve's tests aren't for your benefit? What if he revealed something that could help you tweak your system for better performance in the future? Not saying that's the likely outcome, but if you see no way you could be benefitting from this, I think you're being very closed minded.

[SCVkoiboy]

What is wrong with questioning one's motives? Motives play a very important part in determining intent. In a vacuum or fantasy world which you may be fortunate to be able to live in, motives are unimportant, but in the real world, unless you are a sucker, you should be looking at motives. I bet you do this everyday and don't even realize it. Think about it. Why does your coworker suck up to your boss, why do emails blanket the internet with "you are a lotto winner" just send me $1000 to collect. Ever question their motives or do you think everyone is just peachy! If so, send me your bank account number and I will have my Nigerian friend put 10 million dollars in it for you.


Closed mindedness has nothing to do with my "benefit". I welcome the chance for someone to fix my pond problems which is why I asked for William to come to my house and tell me what was wrong with my system. I would love it if Steve or Tim could look at my system and tell me how to improve it. I would welcome their experience and knowledge. It is not about close mindedness. Maybe you didn't hear the part about the replacement pump doing just fine (still think it is my system, Valarc? Who is the closed minded one here?) Using every bit of logic I can muster, it seems to me that if the Performance Pro pump and the replacement Dragon pump both work fine on the same system that the old dragon pump did not, it is probably the old Dragan pump that is defective. Nonetheless, Valarc, I will keep an opened mind and wait for the testing to be done (which I think I have stated before).

By the way, I have benefited from this and some people could question my motives. I can accept that. I now have a new pump that is actually working after years of problems. I am thankful for that, but the outcome of the test of my old pump has no (sorry, I mean is not likely to have any) bearing or benefit for me. OK, my mind is opened a little bit so here is your chance.

[Tom C]

NO ONE EVER SAID WILLIAM DOESN'T MAKE GOOD PUMPS. So I don't know why that keeps coming up about this person or that person never had a problem with his pumps. It's all about a pump that had a problem that wasn't taken care of in the right way by William. The customer now has a new Dragon pump on the pond that works the way it should. I think that's what this is all about. AGAIN NO ONE EVER SAID WILLIAM DOESN'T MAKE GOOD PUMPS.

I hope the pump gets to you soon Steve. It does need to be tested the right way. When/if the pump did has a issue, William will have to address that with Waterway.

Tim can I ask you what would have you done if this was one of your customers with this problem?

Tom

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tom C NO ONE EVER SAID WILLIAM DOESN'T MAKE GOOD PUMPS. So I don't know why that keeps coming up about this person or that person never had a problem with his pumps. It's all about a pump that had a problem that wasn't taken care of in the right way by William. The customer now has a new Dragon pump on the pond that works the way it should. I think that's what this is all about. AGAIN NO ONE EVER SAID WILLIAM DOESN'T MAKE GOOD PUMPS. I hope the pump gets to you soon Steve. It does need to be tested the right way. When/if the pump did has a issue, William will have to address that with Waterway. Tim can I ask you what would have you done if this was one of your customers with this problem? Tom

Honestly alot of Bay Area Dealers are no longer carrying W.Lim pumps..hhhhmmm...The guy is cool to others but has no love for Bay Area Hobbyist...HAHAHAHAHA...Sad...Might see alot more other pumps replacing the W.Lim on shelf.

[Tom C]

Tony what brand pumps do you see in Bay Area on most ponds?