Butterfly 'koi' are they koi????

[Brutuscz]

I believe no pond is complete without a few butterfly koi. They have a grace in their movement that no standard koi can match. Here are my two BEAUTIFUL BUTTERFLY KOI!!! See that word there...KOI...Because thats what they are!!! Hope you don't enjoy the photos!!!

[Nishikigoiboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by D@z Here in the Uk these mutants turn peoples stumachs, they are classed pretty much as deformed monstrosities by most people I speek too and yet in the US you people actually seem to like them. Do you think they have the right to be called koi or if people insist on keeping them alive, should they have a name of there own and be kept a separate entity?? My opinion is probably obvious by now, I find them hideous and offensive and an insult to real koi, what do you think? and why do you think they are accepted in the US but hated in the UK??

Yes but won't you tell us what you really think about them? T

[Nishikigoiboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fishbreeder The reason so many longfins are owned by water gardeners is that they tend to be hardier and more forgiving than koi. They adapt well to a wide variety of habitats, not all of which koi would thrive in. Fine fish they might be, beautiful, graceful, even imposing, but they cannot be "koi" as koi do not have long fins. Koi, common river carp, and longfins are all the same species (Cyprinus carpio) but common river carp are not koi or longfins, koi are not common river carp or longfins, and longfins are not common river carp or koi. Popular with many, and even beginning to get some definitions as to what a "show quality" longfin is, but no matter how refined they might become, they won;t be koi.

Years ago, that's what they said about Doitsugoi in Japan........

[D@z]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brutuscz I believe no pond is complete without a few butterfly koi. They have a grace in their movement that no standard koi can match. Here are my two BEAUTIFUL BUTTERFLY KOI!!! See that word there...KOI...Because thats what they are!!! Hope you don't enjoy the photos!!!

I know full well that there are people that like them, I'm more interested in why they seem to be liked in the US and detested over here.

In my opinion those mutants are not koi, they are deformed accidents brought about from koi, but they're not nishikigoi. I class people who keep them as fish keepers, not not koi keepers. For me, real koi hobbiest are appauled by them.

I appreciate my opinion will not please everyone but I post honestly and if I just put 'I dont like them, what about you' then others will just follow suit and the thread will die without getting any real information from it.

[MikeM]

Actually, Brutuscz, I do not find those attractive. I've not seen a Butterfly I like.... different strokes, etc.



Many years ago I raised freshwater tropical angelfish. The long veil-tailed varieties were a novelty in the mid-20th century, and remain very popular today. However, when I would buy I would seek out the culls! ... the ones with elongated fins that "stood taller", but did not have the heavy finnage and drooping dorsals of the "best" veiltails. I can imagine a breeding program that improved nishikigoi by focusing on the pectoral fins so that they were large, round and showed off the head of the fish.... like the very best pectorals to be found among, say Yamabuki Ogon. As soon as the fin begins to look wispy, however, I loose interest. The pectorals should be like a fan. ...just my opinion of course.

[Bern]

There is quite a big difference between the longfins in the US and those that we find over here.

I visited the San Diego show in 2001 and was surprised to see longfins that conformed to recognised varieties, I saw LF Sanke, Kohaku as well as metallics including Kujaku. Over here it is hard to put a variety to the ones on sale.

However, having said that I can't say I like them. Unlike fancy goldfish LF koi are just a regular carp shape with extral ong and generally ragged fins and barbels.

Unlike the AKCA, the BKKS doesn't accept them into a koi show.

rgds
Bern

[keokoi]

I gotta be honest that Longfins are cool to watch and swim.. But, the fins itslef distracts my eye from what I really want to study in Nishikigoi. Not saying I am right.

Joe

[Brutuscz]

Hey D@z..I have been a "real" koikeeper for 6 yrs...I have entered (and won) at shows, belonged to koi clubs..and everything!! So, by your rational...a person with longer arms and legs is no longer a person but a mutant deformed accident. I am sure every center in the NBA would love to hear it. I'll make sure and tell shaq for you.... Just an idiotic opinion!!!!

[Fishbreeder]

AKCA allows a fair amount of autonomy in its clubs. If they want a longfin division in thier show, its fine with AKCA. I feel it offers more opportunity to more people to show others thier fish collections.

However, if you ask the ZNA or AKCA judges if longfins/butterflies are "koi" they will tell you "no."

If the one worldwide sanctioning authority says "no" as well as the largest US sanctioning authority agreeing, then I have to say anybody posting to any board that is not a certified koi judge can say whatever they want to say and call longfins koi if they want to, but ain't nobody gonna take it seriously.

So, call'em what you want, nobody's listenin'.

Brett

[keokoi]

I hear longfin koi, Butterfly koi it really dosnt bother me as long as I know what they are talking about. A judge I am not.. but I am stoked that they are in fish..

so can I call them flying koi?


Joe