Butterfly 'koi' are they koi????

[kingkong]

Long fins like long dresses are distracting indeed.

[Brutuscz]

Here are two beautiful shusui butterfly koi. They were bred by yamazaki and are being sold by keirin. Yamazaki is a respected breeder (awesome goromo). Tell me these are not koi?!?!?

[keokoi]

Yamazaki, great goromo's awesome Lemon Hariwake's

Them look like longfin shusui! very nice..


Joe

[Tom C]

Here's some longfins to look at. http://koi.com/sales/catview.php?catid=1 As you can see ever year they are getting better.

Tom

[Brutuscz]

They must be horrified at yamzaki koi farm over these terribly mutated, deformed accidents that are being born at their farm!!! How disgusting these creatures are...just an abomination of nature!!! I would just be appalled to look at them. How can keirin allow such an abomination in their facility?!?! Can everyone smell the sarcasm yet? Have I made my point yet? Now...just look at the pretty koi, enjoy their beauty, and get over it!!!

[Valarc]

I think something some folks aren't really thinking about is the fact that longfins introduce a shot of new life into koi bloodlines. For how many years have people been inbreeding their koi to produce the perfect qualities that are now considered the ideal for winning a show? A common carp is like a locust - almost impossible to get rid of, severely invasive, and incredibly hardy. Koi have certainly lost some of that hardiness, becoming an easy target for a number of parasites and diseases. It's reasonable to believe one possible cause for this could be the massive amount of inbreeding that has occurred. I say, if breeders can inject some fresh DNA into the blood lines, more power to them! Maybe these same longfin bloodlines will eventually be guided more towards something that matches the "real" koi body and fin styles, but I think it's a great idea to do as much as possible to prevent the genetic issues that arise when you constantly inbreed.

[D@z]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brutuscz Here are two beautiful shusui butterfly koi. They were bred by yamazaki and are being sold by keirin. Yamazaki is a respected breeder (awesome goromo). Tell me these are not koi?!?!?

Those are not koi.

There are two very nice koi underneath screaming to get out but they are deformed. If they had a second head but it looked 'beuatiful' would you keep them alive then too?

When culling koi fry, fry with bent spines, deformed heads, eyes missing, fins missing or deformed, are culled.

[D@z]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brutuscz They must be horrified at yamzaki koi farm over these terribly mutated, deformed accidents that are being born at their farm!!! How disgusting these creatures are...just an abomination of nature!!! I would just be appalled to look at them. How can keirin allow such an abomination in their facility?!?! Can everyone smell the sarcasm yet? Have I made my point yet? Now...just look at the pretty koi, enjoy their beauty, and get over it!!!

You made your point in your first post. You like longfins. We got that. Lots of Americans do, that was in my first post. Your not proving anything I dont know. My post was more about why our two nations have such differing opinions on them.

I think I have probably got a bit sidetracked myself to to be honest, I've been sucked into your argument and spent more time slagging them off than discussing why our views differ, for which I appologise.

[Brutuscz]

D@s..You must admit...your language in discussing these fish was a little harsh. I mean monstrosities and mutants are hardly what comes to mind when I see these fish. You not only insulted the fish, but the people who keep them!!! Why do I like them...they are different and interesting. Why do we keep kohaku, utsuri and chagoi....instead of all kohaku? Because...it is more interesting to see different styles of koi in your pond. If they all looked the same, the pond would be a little boring to watch. These fish add a new dimension to koi viewing....and they are very graceful to watch. Open your mind and enjoy them....they are works of art from many of the same breeders we have grown to respect.

[D@z]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brutuscz D@s..You must admit...your language in discussing these fish was a little harsh. I mean monstrosities and mutants are hardly what comes to mind when I see these fish. You not only insulted the fish, but the people who keep them!!! Why do I like them...they are different and interesting. Why do we keep kohaku, utsuri and chagoi....instead of all kohaku? Because...it is more interesting to see different styles of koi in your pond. If they all looked the same, the pond would be a little boring to watch. These fish add a new dimension to koi viewing....and they are very graceful to watch. Open your mind and enjoy them....they are works of art from many of the same breeders we have grown to respect.

My mind isnt closed m8, yes my language was harsh, but that is what I think of them and what I feel when I see one. There is no point me using less harsh words because that would be lying.

As I said earlier, having 2 heads would be different and interesting but thats not right either. You say you like them because they are different to koi but I dont want different to koi, I want koi, why look for something thats different if I'm REALLY into koi?

I would like to see some evidence that Japanese KOI breeders 'respect' them, as that is most deffinitely not what I have seen. I'm most deffinitely not alone in my opinion of them over here, I can post links to others comments as eveidence if you doubt that.