The First U.S. Bred Gosanke GC?

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Koi Story Aquitori, Thank you for your answer. Does your post mean “Kohak” is American slang for the Japanese word Kohaku? Arekkusu (Alex), ks

Like I said before I heard Daisuke Maeda (Momotaro) as well as the the other guys there say it. I started spelling it the way they said it.

[Koi Story]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori Cool info, I think I have a magazine somewhere it was owned by some Japanese Hobbyist...but I could be wrong. The Kohak is really nice, needs more girth to her. The pattern is not your typically SFF pattern show placing fish looks more Torazo...Well anyways, great Kohak none the less.

Torazo is a Taisho Sanhoku line, Isn't it?

ks

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Koi Story Torazo is a Taisho Sanhoku line, Isn't it? ks

Torazo is a breeder made famous with his Sanke in the early 1920's. They didn't start breeding Kohaku until later...

[Koi Story]

The Torazo Sanshoku comes from the Urakawa Fish Farm (Ojiya). Its developer was Torakichi (Female Sanshoku X male Yagozen Kohaku) and named after his father Torazo. Torakichi’s son Hiroshi Kawakami is the recent owner of the farm. Torazo Sanshoku were produced around 1950. The characteristics of the Torazo Sanshoku are fine Hi and solid rather small sumi markings that are stable.

If you could you please explain the characteristics of this Kohaku that made you think its a Torazo?



Ks

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Koi Story The Torazo Sanshoku comes from the Urakawa Fish Farm (Ojiya). Its developer was Torakichi (Female Sanshoku X male Yagozen Kohaku) and named after his father Torazo. Torakichi’s son Hiroshi Kawakami is the recent owner of the farm. Torazo Sanshoku were produced around 1950. The characteristics of the Torazo Sanshoku are fine Hi and solid rather small sumi markings that are stable. If you could you please explain the characteristics of this Kohaku that made you think its a Torazo? Ks

First off, why in the hell did you type so small? Now let me say we are talking about Kohak not Sanke. The reason for my opinion is that the flowery pattern resembles Torazo type pattern. The body type is more long and not stout, meaning the Kohaku is more spindle. If I am wrong then I am wrong, then again the owner of the fish in the previous posting didn't answer my question. What breeder do you think it is from?

[Tom C]

Quote: First off, why in the hell did you type so small?

I'm so old I couldn't see any of it. I just copied it and made it so I could see it.

The Torazo Sanshoku comes from the Urakawa Fish Farm (Ojiya). Its developer was Torakichi (Female Sanshoku X male Yagozen Kohaku) and named after his father Torazo. Torakichi’s son Hiroshi Kawakami is the recent owner of the farm. Torazo Sanshoku were produced around 1950. The characteristics of the Torazo Sanshoku are fine Hi and solid rather small sumi markings that are stable.

If you could you please explain the characteristics of this Kohaku that made you think its a Torazo?

[Koi Story]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori Torazo is a breeder made famous with his Sanke in the early 1920's. They didn't start breeding Kohaku until later...

Hi there Aquitori. Sorry about the type size.

“Now let me say we are talking about Kohak not Sanke”

That’s exactly the point, Torazo is uncalled for in a talk about Kohaku. I.e. unless you can provide a reference, quote, picture, or link about the existence of a Torazo line of Kohaku.



A post about Kohaku should include lines such as Sensuke Kohaku, Tomoin Kohaku, Buketa Kohaku, Yagozen Kohaku, Manzo Kohaku, Dainichi Kohaku, and Gempachi Kohaku.



To answer your question, What breeder do you think it is from?

“Every Koi is unique and the only real measure is the skillful perception of informed observers. Furthermore, notable Kohaku are produced which are not single bloodline Koi, for example Igarashi Kohaku which are produced using Dainichi and Sensuke are among the best in the world - look with your eyes, not preformed ideas.”

From> http://www.koimag.com/features/judging/kohaku/kohaku1.html



Good luck,



ks wa no ni en desu

[MikeM]

I think this thread is becoming a bit confused regarding Torazo. The Kawakami family's koi farm is known by the name: Torazo. It means "tiger". There was a line of Sanke known by the name Torazo, which was connected with the Jimbei line. Today, Sanke continue to be bred, but Torazo (the koi farm) produces more Kohaku than any other variety. There are numerous breeding pairs/trios. I do not recall the exact number, but it is something like 8 or 10. The Oyagoi are from several different old bloodlines ... a mixture of Manzo, Sensuke, Dainichi and others. Despite the variety of parentage, Torazo's Kohaku do have a certain look to them. The Hi is a soft orange-red and the fish can put on great volume. Perhaps it is the breeder's eye as much as genetics? In the last couple of years the Kohaku produced by Torazo have been taking on a different look. I suspect introduction of new Oyagoi....perhaps to gain greater length??? Torazo will always be known for its place in koi history as the farm that produced great Sanke (for that day) long ago, but it is known now for it's Kohaku. ...The earthquakes last October caused quite a bit of damage, but I've heard the Kawakami family continues to breed and will be harvesting this Fall.

[junglegeorge12]

there are at least three breeders I am aware of continuing the torazo line, but what has that got to do with kohaku????

[junglegeorge12]

koi story you forgot matsunosuke in your list of kohaku breeders



also, who knows who got which parents from dianichi?