Age before beauty

[kingkong]

Older fish produce exponentially more eggs than younger. Mr. Berkeley, a biologist at the University of Cal.-Santa Cruz reports the offspring of big, mature females also grow faster and are more likely to survive. Berkeley was "astounded" by his results. Growth rates were 3.5 faster from older Moms. That explains it, I have first brood offspring done for testing. LOL

[woodyaht]

I was reading somewhere that a larger fish produces larger eggs which intern has larger fry hatch giving them a huge head start.


Bring on the Jumbos for breeding

[aquitori]

I read somewhere that a breeder in Southern Japan only uses huge females for breeding regardless of pattern and more for Skin quality and the size of the eggs which were bigger. Now when we talk about huge we are talking in regards to females in the 32-36" range. The males were definitely smaller 27-28" but they had the complete package of pattern, shiroji and conformation. The end product were jumbo tosai in the 18-20" range.

[Regenmeneer]

KingKong


When you´re talking about age before beauty, are you referring to the fact that breeders normally do not breed with koi that are losing their beauty becuase they find that koi in this stage of their life will produce fry with less potential on the beauty side, while the study would suggest using oyagoi that are older because of the growth potential of the offspring?

I have wondered before why there would be less beautifull offspring from koi that look less because of old age. It´s about genetics as well if you ask me, and genetics don´t change.

Regenmeneer

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Regenmeneer KingKong When you´re talking about age before beauty, are you referring to the fact that breeders normally do not breed with koi that are losing their beauty becuase they find that koi in this stage of their life will produce fry with less potential on the beauty side, while the study would suggest using oyagoi that are older because of the growth potential of the offspring? I have wondered before why there would be less beautifull offspring from koi that look less because of old age. It´s about genetics as well if you ask me, and genetics don´t change. Regenmeneer

Genetics don't change, but they do tend to be washed out after time. I think in the article on Toshio Sakai (Bito #9) he is having to continue reinforcing the genetic makeup of his line.

[kevan]

Mr Nakayama told me the best age for a female parent is from 5-8 years, and that older koi produce less high grade koi than younger koi,
also the best jumbo breeders like to use young koi on the whole 5-8 years for female and often younger for males, i think basically its not age but size and potential size that is the important feature.


kevan.

[Regenmeneer]

Unfortunately, I don´t have issue 9(yet). But I think what Toshio Sakai means that he still wants to improve the genetics, and they get washed out because of breeding with koi that are from a genetcally limited background.

Don´t get me wrong, I believe the breeders when they say quality of fry becomes less if the oyagoi are loosing their good condition, for whatever reason. But in my opinion, this can not be caused by a change in genetics, because these stay the same. It must be something to do with the quality of the eggs.

Regenmeneer

[Brady Brandwood]

My experience is that egg size and fry size and growth are related more to bloodlines and family trees, and not related to the size or age of the Mother Koi. Some Mothers produce large eggs, and some Mothers produce small eggs,... (even very large Mothers) and the fry grow at a rate dependent on the environment, water temp., and their family's genetics.

Best Wishes,
Brady Brandwood

[dick benbow]

for the first time this year i bred kohaku from older parents and bigger koi.
The eggs were bigger and the fry TRUELY GREW AT A FASTER RASTE than all the other kohakus from the past. I realize one year does not tell the story but it was such a dramatic turn of events that i could not deny what i saw...

[kingkong]

In case you wanted to know the fish Mr. Berkeley used is a Boccacio rockfish. There is a picture of it in National Wildlife. Commercial and recreational fisherman often target larger fish, both because they are more valuable and because smaller fish are most important for maintaining future stocks. Berkeley says this system is bass ackwards .