A few words to put things in perspective

[koi4all]

fair enough brain I use to put a link to my site but have now removed it I am to small to advertise as I only sell a few koi to what are now friends I understand what you are saying and will continue to subscribe to the mag and carry on learning .


all the best for the future rick

[Brian]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bob Hart Always difficult Brian, nicly said though. I'm sure it wont go un-noticed, but Maurice has pulled his latest picture of a Koi he has bred this year. I guessing that Maurice and others in a similar vein will not now be posting regarding their Koi breeding, which is a great loss to everyone on KoiBito. We have so much to learn from these guys, but they fit the bill of 'businesses' and feel that they cannot now advertise. Catch 22 springs to mind.

Yes Bob, it is difficult and I don't feel completely at ease having to make these kinds of comments. It's a situation where nobody comes out a clear winner, but rather everyone seems to lose something. We have a bit of a dillema here though as to where to draw the line. I've met Maurice a few times, and I'm impressed with his dedication and with all he's undertaken. I understand his position, but I hope that people can understand mine as well.

Koi-Bito has to make a profit to continue on...simple as that. I don't have another sideline of goods to sell, and I don't depend upon this publication as a tool for me to sell my koi to retail hobbyist. I'm sure that many of the dealers would be upset if I did, and the chatter would be incessant. The only way that I can make money is through paid advertisements.

How would people feel if I set up a dry goods business, or followed along some of the "free advertising" posts and then cut the dealer that started the thread out and offered to sell koi directly to those following it? I do live here in Japan year-round, you know. I can imagine that I wouldn't be too popular with some of the people that I may have ticked off with my post, but then I think they'd be able to sympathize with my feelings of being "cut out" of making a fair return for a service.

Tell you what, if all advertisers for a given market (country) don't have a problem with someone using the board to promote themselves or their koi, then neither do I. If the paying advertisers give it their blessing, then it's fine. I would think that that is a pretty fair statement, is it not?

Unfortunately for me, I don't have any big organizations backing me like the AKCA or BKKS. If their members were to receive Koi-Bito as part of their membership, then that would cover my expenses and allow me to make a decent living. I wouldn't have do petty crackdowns like I'm doing here. Unfortunately, I don't have the support of either of these organization, nor do I have any well-to-do financiers as one magazine did. Regardless of that, I'm still here and another magazine went bust, leaving more than a few of you high and dry on the remainder of your subscription fees I might add.

Anyway, I'm open to new ideas...anyone have any? Anyone willing to chip in and sponsor a banner for those professionals that they feel enrich this board? I'm open to that as well. Another thought, if you folks don't have any problems with me exploring new ways to create revenue for the magazine, then perhaps I don't need to clamp down and create a chilling effect for those posting here. Would anyone be against that?

Again, I'm open to ideas and your thoughts here. Something has to pay to keep the lights on, presses running, and data flowing. I've just upgraded our server to facilitate the changes that you'll see on this site in a short time. I'm willing to invest here folks, I hope that some of you are willing to do the same.

Best regards,

[Maurice]

Bob and KoiCop, I've recieve a handfull of e-mails today saying the same as you both.

I like to share what I am doing, I'm in heaven and feel many are interested in my attemps at climbing a ladder many have sad is not possible. But my posts may be construed as advertising, as I am in business. That's not my intention, but it may be read as subliminal advertising. Brian has now made these rules and I must adhere to them, I have no problem with them.

It is a great shame that the paying advertisers do not contribute to the forum, without posters there is no forum and I'm sure these guys have a great deal of knowledge to share.

I've clicked on the advertising section at the top of the page, but it fails to work.

Maurice.

[JasonS]

I think we can tell which posts cross the line and which posts are just sharing. Brady and Maurice often are just sharing. Maurice could simply share without having his own site listed, I think.

However, I'm sure Brian could accommodate anybody advertising a special sale or similar. Buy a sticky post from Brian or special banner ad or something. Maurice or Brady or Tom or ... could just let Brian know a bit ahead of time and work out a deal -- Brian could make the post himself too.

Just ideas...

I plan on sharing some of my own experiences helping a friend who is getting into this koi breeding thing as well. I don't plan on telling anybody in these forums who the breeder is or where the facilities are or how to get ahold of some of the fine fish. Not the point of the posts. I just want to share some of the excitement that comes from that aspect of this wonderful hobby. (And I've got my own non-commercial nose to keep clean.)

I'm sure Maurice and others would like to share the same with us. Let's just give them a chance, as long as they make sure they leave off the commercial pointers from their posts.

(Edit: and Maurice, if there was some way of just leaving your sig off the posts with your fish, I think there'd be nothing to complain about)

[Brian]

Good points Jason,

As I said, I'm open to new ideas. I don't have a problem with people sharing either. But, if what you share approach 100% of items you have for sale, then I think that we really have to say that it is indeed advertising.

If the purpose is to teach, again, no problem. We can find examples outside of what's up for sale by the respective dealers, or people are welcome to post anonymously. The message still gets across, and then nobody has crossed the line. Does this sound fair or far-fetched?

rgds,

[Chagoi]

Brian..well said...I think, many folks that teach could also afford to advertise here...we just need to know the rates and maybe re-structure the rates for some folks that are on the border-line....of being able to spend the $$$ here...just food for thought.

[Valarc]

If you can't get the support of the big organizations, why not try to get support from invidual koi clubs? I know it's a lot more work dealing one on one, but you could offer a discounted rate to all club members in exchange for a koi-bito banner being displayed prominently at club events like shows. A little advertising for your magazine and a little incentive for club members to sign up. I know when I joined my club, I got a subscription to koi usa pretty much only because it was included as an option on the application form. If koi bito was an option on others' application forms, I bet it could bring in some serious subscriber numbers.

[Nancy M.]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valarc If you can't get the support of the big organizations, why not try to get support from invidual koi clubs? I know it's a lot more work dealing one on one, but you could offer a discounted rate to all club members in exchange for a koi-bito banner being displayed prominently at club events like shows. A little advertising for your magazine and a little incentive for club members to sign up. I know when I joined my club, I got a subscription to koi usa pretty much only because it was included as an option on the application form. If koi bito was an option on others' application forms, I bet it could bring in some serious subscriber numbers.

Great Idea Valarc
Brian, let me know if that is a workable approach.. I would be more than happy to bring this up at our clubs next board meeting. I would just need some numbers for prices.. I think our club and KB could both benefit from this. Would also love to have a banner to hang up at our November show advertising your magazine..

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Maurice Bob and KoiCop, I've recieve a handfull of e-mails today saying the same as you both. I like to share what I am doing, I'm in heaven and feel many are interested in my attemps at climbing a ladder many have sad is not possible. But my posts may be construed as advertising, as I am in business. That's not my intention, but it may be read as subliminal advertising. Brian has now made these rules and I must adhere to them, I have no problem with them. It is a great shame that the paying advertisers do not contribute to the forum, without posters there is no forum and I'm sure these guys have a great deal of knowledge to share. I've clicked on the advertising section at the top of the page, but it fails to work. Maurice.

I find your knowledge on the Bactera House/Bakki shower every informative and I think Mr. Maeda would appreicate the word of mouth and experience people are having with his product.....

[Russell Peters]

I do think that Tom's advertising a sale for his store on this site was shameless. When I first read it, I thought the Koi-Bito forum had dropped into the retail abyss of the Koi world and all was lost. On the other hand I really enjoy hearing from people like Maurice, as I have never really felt that he was trying to sell anything.