A few words to put things in perspective

[bekko]

Brian,

Make the forum a profit center. Then, you will not have to worry that the forum is undermining the economics of producing the magazine.

If Tom is having a sale, those forum members in his part of the world would like to (need to) know about it. It all contributes to the individual's learning process and the comradery. Since the forum is also contributing to Tom's revenue, the forum should share in those revenues. Give Tom a mechanism for easily buying a forum advert. Put a price on what it will cost to post a commercially-oriented thread. Take his credit card number and put some little special icon next to his thread to designate it as a paid advert.

Sell banner space. Price it by the day/week/month and square inch (or pixel or whatever).

I think it would be a reasonable policy to charge a fee for posting a photo of a fish which is, or will be, offered for sale. This would include photos posted to make some point relevant to the discussion. Come up with a reasonable fee and a simple way to transfer the money. To make it work with everyone's schedule, give a 2-3 day grace period for paying the bill. Allow the poster to put some icon next to the photo indicating that they realize they will have pay a fee and that they owe you.

Charge a fee for posting a link to a commercial site. Charge a fee for posting a link to another forum. After all, the forum is a profit center and at least one of the other forums is owned/sponsored by a competing magazine. Use the same stipulations and processes noted in the paragraph above.

I'm sure the forum members would be willing to (and may enjoy) helping you enforce the rules.

Personally, I subscribe to the magazine only because I enjoy the forum and feel obliged to help support it. The recent issue of the magazine arrived about a month ago but I haven't even taken it out of the envelope yet.

I call my collection of hobbies a business. The forum provides a lot of good info and makes the business more productive and interesting. I would not mind spending some of those business revenues on the forum. Just give us a fee schedule and a mechanism to do it.

-steve hopkins
Rain Garden Ornamentals

[greg]

OK,

This is a tricky one. People like Maurice are doing a lot for the Koi keeping hobby. I have not personally been to his facility in the UK - but with his permission i will be visisting there when my pond build is complete.

We can all learn alot from them in terms of knowledge and attitude.

Koi-Bito needs to keep these people on the forum and subscribed to the magazine for them both to grow. Why not have a system whereby upon joining they have the option of adding there logo (avatar) or a website link in there signature for a small fee (1000yen per year for each?) this in return gives them the right to post adverts in the NEW industry section and post pictures of the breeding programme (fish for sale) for helping us new koi keepers in the normal general section.

I think it would also help if people in the koi buisness were identified on the forum by some kind of icon - enabling people to make enformed decisions about advice given. (T for trade?).

People who do not pay the small fee cannot have links in there signatures or have buisness related avatars. You could then put something in the terms and conditions about removing posts that are blatent advertising if you have not paid the fee. ALL ADVERTISMENTS MUST go into the industry section as this is not what the general forum is about. I have no idea if you would be able to police this or how you would go about it. Just an idea!

Someone will probably be able to expand on this better than me.

Regards,

[Brian]

Quote: Originally Posted by bekko Brian, Make the forum a profit center. Then, you will not have to worry that the forum is undermining the economics of producing the magazine. If Tom is having a sale, those forum members in his part of the world would like to (need to) know about it. It all contributes to the individual's learning process and the comradery. Since the forum is also contributing to Tom's revenue, the forum should share in those revenues. Give Tom a mechanism for easily buying a forum advert. Put a price on what it will cost to post a commercially-oriented thread. Take his credit card number and put some little special icon next to his thread to designate it as a paid advert. Sell banner space. Price it by the day/week/month and square inch (or pixel or whatever). I think it would be a reasonable policy to charge a fee for posting a photo of a fish which is, or will be, offered for sale. This would include photos posted to make some point relevant to the discussion. Come up with a reasonable fee and a simple way to transfer the money. To make it work with everyone's schedule, give a 2-3 day grace period for paying the bill. Allow the poster to put some icon next to the photo indicating that they realize they will have pay a fee and that they owe you. Charge a fee for posting a link to a commercial site. Charge a fee for posting a link to another forum. After all, the forum is a profit center and at least one of the other forums is owned/sponsored by a competing magazine. Use the same stipulations and processes noted in the paragraph above. I'm sure the forum members would be willing to (and may enjoy) helping you enforce the rules. Personally, I subscribe to the magazine only because I enjoy the forum and feel obliged to help support it. The recent issue of the magazine arrived about a month ago but I haven't even taken it out of the envelope yet. I call my collection of hobbies a business. The forum provides a lot of good info and makes the business more productive and interesting. I would not mind spending some of those business revenues on the forum. Just give us a fee schedule and a mechanism to do it. -steve hopkins Rain Garden Ornamentals

Hi Tom,

Very good ideas indeed. Not sure how feasible some of them are from a technical or logistical point though. I don't think I'll ever be able to police how people post photos, as they can simply embed remote images into their posts. Supppose I could get rid of that capability and require people to upload.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions, but I'll have to think things over a bit.

[Brian]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valarc If you can't get the support of the big organizations, why not try to get support from invidual koi clubs? I know it's a lot more work dealing one on one, but you could offer a discounted rate to all club members in exchange for a koi-bito banner being displayed prominently at club events like shows. A little advertising for your magazine and a little incentive for club members to sign up. I know when I joined my club, I got a subscription to koi usa pretty much only because it was included as an option on the application form. If koi bito was an option on others' application forms, I bet it could bring in some serious subscriber numbers.

Indeed a good idea. The only problem with that is that for a discount to work, I need to receive payments in a single transaction. If delivery of magazines could be taken at a single location, and then distributed to club members, that would help even further and the discount could work even more for people.

[kingkong]

Now your talken Brian, send the mag to the press, box them up and ship as one unit and distribute here. Lump sum payment would be great for the pocket book and States side can worry about the deliveries.

[Brian]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nancy M. Great Idea Valarc Brian, let me know if that is a workable approach.. I would be more than happy to bring this up at our clubs next board meeting. I would just need some numbers for prices.. I think our club and KB could both benefit from this. Would also love to have a banner to hang up at our November show advertising your magazine..

Hi Nancy,

I'll PM in a little while to discuss further.

[pomdac]

At least this thread has done some good!

I have intended for fome time to subscribe to K B but for some reason failed with my application ,twice,and then just kept forgetting to try again.
Anyway,with a supreme effort I have just put in a successful application and the magazine should soon be with me.
Hope this pushes more people into getting there orders in,this is surely one way to help the situation,and soooo painless.

Doris

[Tony Prew]

First of all Brian I don't envy you having to take this stand
But, I applaud you for your commitment to Koi-Bito and everyone out here that gets to reap the reward of all your dedication
I personally can not believe that the individuals that choose to squeeze a free plug for their business on the forum really can't afford to pay for some form of advertising
I have been in the business for many years and have put my blood,sweat, and tears into it more for improving the hobby than my bottom line
Not being born with a silver spoon in my hand I understand the value of hard work and dedication
I challange all those who have taken advantage of Brian's good nature to stand up and be responsible for their actions
Buy Banner space, I did and it did not put me in the poor house
I am not going to name names, you know who you are !
I would also ask that those of you who support these individuals business's
contact them and encourage them to give Brian the support and respect that he deserves
It would be a shame for us to loose what Brian has provided for us
Koi-Bito is cutting edge technology, This forum in my opinion is #1 in providing a constant stream of information for everyone. Seasoned veteran or novice.
I for one would hate for Brian to have to waste his time editing individuals attempts to plug their business's . I really feel that these individuals are capable of paying their way just as I have done. And in case I have not made myself perfectly clear, Yes that does include those who add a link to their business in their post. Shame on You .
Brian, I think you have gotten some good ideas on structuring some advertising cost for those who would like to post some sale information regarding their business. Folks, put your money where your mouth is, and pay up front, you should not expect Brian to front you advertising time.

Keep up the Great Work Brian, You have my full Support

Tony

[Brady Brandwood]

Why all the fanfare? Why not just remove any posts that are too commercial for this board, or send a private e-mail to anyone that seems to be pushing the limits of the Koi-Bito policy? The way this thread is balanced at the moment every Professional that has posted here is wondering if HE or SHE is the one being spoken of when someone says "You know who you are!!!".

The Professionals in our hobby are the ones with advanced knowledge, and up-to-date information,... and they contribute a great deal to this board. Their contribution of knowledge plays a big part in making this board "legitimate" as a source for information and answers. I think "blanket scoldings" can be offensive and insulting. Be specific, scold offenders directly and privately,... the pros that contribute their time and valuable knowledge deserve respect too! If we look at the history of Koi BB's we can see that the "party" goes where the great minds of our hobby go.

Best Wishes,
Brady Brandwood

[junglegeorge12]

I still believe you need a seperate page for adverts that range in price from $20/mo to $150, depending on size and location. Make it accessible from the forum pages, so someone can just say click on the link above and look for ..... Give your current customers paying for ads preference in placement and size. The banners will eventually get full, and you can add more later.

It works like this for small businesses, once they get used to paying you $10-20 a month, and see a little revenue come in, why bumping up to $40-50 is no biggie, then after a while $100, then $150, then hundreds a month and full page ads in the mag. That's why alot of mags have a cheap classifieds section, to get people rolling.

You have to remember, that for an advertiser, the goal is revenue for their business, not keeping your mag afloat. Most folks will be really hesitant to put out alot of money without seeing some fruit first. But smaller chunks are much easier to 'risk' at first.
Speaking from real world experience, this is what will happen if you do that.

One, alot of folks will become members to be able to advertise, and most will subscribe to the magazine at some point.

Two, alot of folks will surf those pages looking for competitive pricing on products they find out about in the chat forums. It will become a place to send folks who will see many ads, instead of posting links to sites in the forum all the time, people will being to direct folks to your ads page. That will produce increased hits and volume for all the businesses advertising there.

Three, smaller and moms and pops businesses will be able to afford ads right away and to stand up and buy the more expensive ads in time. They will appreciate you forever and be loyal supporters of your magazine for helping their dream come true. Then your magazine will probably last at least as long as they all live, and they will pass it to the next generation.