curious of the world's persepective

[luke frisbee]

I mentioned this when i was explaining about the HEALTHY relationship MJ and I have....
ya see if other countries are looking for a reason to get pissy, or they are caring a grudge, or having a bad day in the public's eye THEN they are going to allow themselves to take the trivial trips of another country's leaders as a bad thing.
they should just take a pill, or go sit on a pillow by the koi pond

[Brian]

Hi Dick,

I'm glad that you posted this question, as it's one that I've been itching to address with someone for a long time to let my own thoughts be now. Before I start out though, that I personally believe that all of us belong to the human family and that we're all stuck together on this planet...like it or not. We can either learn how to get along and solve our many problems, or we can revert back to the barbarism which taints the history of ALL humankind.

That being said, I'm personally disappointed that Koizumi has yet again visited the Yasukuni Shrine. While I fail to understand why the people that seem the most offended by it are usually the ones that have no direct connection or experience with WWII, it unnecessarily gives Japan a black eye around the world and provides the fuel for anti-Japanese fervor. Koizumi does not speak for the Japanese people, and there was some violent protests by younger Japanese desperate to shake Japan's wartime/colonial image and move on into the future. Koizumi is from Yokosuka, which has a very old military tradition and I'm sure that Koizumi is paying lip service to the powerbrokers that got him to where he is today.

I do understand that the Asian countries that suffered under the yoke of Japanese Imperialism perceive these visits as a slight. My ancestors served in both theaters of the war, and I've heard some pretty horrific stories from both sides. I'm sure that at some level, my great uncle that served in the pacific isn't thrilled by these visits either, but that part of his life is over and he's moved on. I think I've already mentioned that the vast majority of people that I see on the TV screen turning rabidly anti-Japanese because of Koizumi's visits (which again I personally disagree with) have no experience or recollection of Japanese wartime aggression. Sadly, imperialism is a phenomenon that continues to this day, disappointingly enough by one of the countries from which the howls against Japan seem the loudest.

Over the years, I've come to understand the signs of domestic turmoil in other East Asian countries. The very first sign of this are demonstrations and/or riots against Japan, many times openly encouraged by the officialdom of the country in question. The easiest way to control unrest at home is to deflect the peoples' discontent onto a foreign target. That tactic is as old as civilization itself, and is very effective and moving your own difficult problems off of the agenda and back behind the curtain again. I think that Koizumi is giving the powers that be in other Asian countries exactly the release valve that they need and want.

Eventually, you have to forgive and move on. I know that this is a sensitive subject for some, but there's no progress to be made when you make someone pay for the sins of their ancestors indefinitely. That being said, if Koizumi feels compelled to visit Yasukuni Shrine "privately", then he should wait and do so after he gives up government life and returns to being a private citizen. If his visits cause so much hurt and resentment, and he still insists on doing them, then the Japanese people need to question his value to the nation as prime minister and make their voices heard in the next election.

Just to add a note onto my original post:

Koizumi should publicly announce when he plans to visit the shrine. The way in which the general public finds out only after makes me think him to be a bit cowardly. Let everyone know when you plan to visit so that you can face the brunt of the protests directly. The images on TV make it appear that the all Japanese people condone his visits, when in reality they don't.

[soelistyo]

i don't think we can simply just judge those who take offense against Koizumi's visit as people who need a chill pill. feelings run very deep on this matter.

Brian summed it up perfectly imho.

[luke frisbee]

so some ol guy going to shrine about some very long dead soldiers from a War WHICH HIS COUNTRY LOST and which HUMBLED his ENTIRE NATION should get people that weren't either at the shrine or in that war to get extremely uptight?
No it should not.
The people want to act out, and he is just a reason, or a target.

If Japan starts playing with nukes what would the rest of tahat part of the world do?
But North Korea can?
people got their knickers in a knot because they WANT their knickers in a knot. They could choose to let an old man go about his private life.

And I disagree with brian. this fellow needs to announce he is going so he can not be allowed to achieve his goal for going if he has to listen to a bunch of "protestors"...and what kind of message would that send?
I am going to this shrine tomorrow. it is of such great importance that I need to tell the public that I am going to do it. I am doing it...so what do you think I am doing it for...please come out and let me know what you think. i hope all will support me in my desire to dominate the Asiatic World."

NO. Allow the man to do it as low-key as he desires. To announce the visit beforehand WOULD make it a political issue.

part of his family may have died in that war, he should be allowed a private aspect in his life

[junglegeorge12]

Wow, trying to cover a subject as difficult as this one in a chat thread. We are going to need the war planners to fully dissect all he was up to with his visit. It probably had multiple meanings and intentions, probably none of which he will announce publicly. It was a political statement, but for what end is hard to read just by observing the surface action and without much more intel on what he is facing right now and trying to accomplish. Washington probably has teams of analysts trying to figure it out. Jumping to conclusions here is kind of premature.

He had to know it would ruffle feathers, but who knows why he wanted that to occur. Maybe to say "hey US, do not leave us as victims to the growing Chinese domination, or to other countries such as N Korea and Iran. Remember the war and all the dead. Please do not forget your committment to us in the middle of all the decision making. We had lots of folks die at your hand, and as well many died at ours, please do not forget the price of what we have now and please do not make such things nescessary again." It may have actually been a move to get the US to increase it's military presence to try to send out a messsage to the other countries nearby "Do not cross the line and mess with us."

I would guess that was more his intent. Right now Chavez is offering cheaper oil to countries who diss the US, so maybe he just wanted cheaper gas for Japan. Who knows the real reasons? The Pentagon and him. It could be the old imperialists are trying to gain ground. Most socialists and imperialists are hoping that Chavez is successful in his attempts to bring down the US. Problem is, Chavez is just being used as a pawn and doing exactly what the US strategists want and just does not know it. Lots of concerns out there right now, and lots of what appears to be potential instability coming. Everyoine wants to send out messages to scare enemies or potential enemies in such a time. I personally think it is all much adieou about nothing.

I personally think it is much noise over a mute issue. The US will use the oil prices to force the use of some US resources of oil, and as well force the alternative energy technologies that have been developed to be utilized, all of which will cause oil prices to drop like a rock, leaving Chavez penniless to pursue his military ambitions. It creates tremendous consumer demand and pressure on the auto industry who is holding back the technology to pay homage to it's oil consituents. The public outcry will justify government interevention, without making them look suspect. It is just politics.

I also saw a documentary on the Discovery Channel about the battleship Yamamato, the Nagasaki and Hiroshima bombs, and the flame throwing ground advances in WW2 recently. It may have sparked some emotions on all sides. Also, how long should Japan have to wait to start to remilitarize when surrounded by dangerous foes, when Iraq is already being militarized? Not suggesting what should happen, just pointing out how certain folks may feel about things at this time. Noone likes to feel ashamed, and I think it is time for the shame to go from Japan. I wonder why he really did it, knowing it would spark international anger and attempts to shame Japan. He is trying to stir a pot, but which ones are hard to know without alot of intel.

[dick benbow]

thank-you all for your expressing your feelings on this topic. As you can sense it brings up a lot of thoughts and underlying sensitivities. Things that people need to be aware of in their own acts and daily living.

[Ryan S.]

Interesting topic. I would think most people in the US would be supportive of loosening restrictions on Japan, in favor of a greater military role. Eventually the China/N.Korea situation will lead to conflict, probably WWIII. Non-democratic goverments just don't last, and the rest of the world will need powerfull allies in the region. If there is not a conflict before then, there will be a popular uprising some day. I don't think we are going to luck out again as we did with the USSR. Japan as a regional power does create some concerns (for those of that want to see democratic goverments), could hinder an uprising in China, I doubt any chinese want to see Japanese troops in China again.

[junglegeorge12]

It is so hard to say what will happen. I think we all need to remember it was a mere 60 years ago that ww2 was being fought and millions were dying all over the place. I think the Yamato is a constant reminder that violence should always be the last option, not saying it should never be used. Some of that death was due to japan's actions and the US reaction, and some due to Hitler's onslaught. I can understand why many people would want to hear apologies. I think apologizing is the least we can do after killing and maiming one another.

Then the world got embroiled in the anti-capitalism socialist vs democracy issue, a revolutionary mindset for 30 years, while also fighting the cold war. Here the southern hemishpere (mostly latin america) has been strongly influenced by the delusions of socialism. The reality that socialism=dictatorship still has not sunk in. As long as they have a rich neighbor to blame, they do not have to accept the reality that their poverty is due to their socialist thinking. Much the same as most wealthy folks know the thing keeping the poor poor is the way they choose to think and how that influences what they do and do not do and say. Hitler is a perfect example of why socialism/imperialism usually does not work. In those days imperialism was only viewed as dangerous if the imperial leaders were nuts and controlling the mindset of their people. Now we have internet and international sattelite news so it is not so easy to do anymore(brainwash a nation), although it stillis going on to a degree. I believe internet 2 is going to further break down those walls that brainwashed nations are kept behind.

The mindset here is that the US is the cause of thier poverty rather than their own poor performance brought on by socialism, and the lazy 'the world and the US owe me everything' mindset it produces is still playing head games with folks. So they must blame an outside source. So they look for the neighbor who looks to be doing the best, and blame his 'evil ways' for it all.

Right now Chazev has been installing his pigeons in the presidencies(assissinating all real opponents) and higher positions in the countries all through latin america. He is using the medias there to create an anti US socialist revolution fervor. He has linked up to Che Guerrerra's followers and Castro's supporters and are drawing college kids by the hundreds of thousands into their way of thinking, by strategically placing their professors in those universities. They especially target the communications majors destined for media postions. The result is history taught from Castro's perspective, literally. Castro links right to russia's old communist move and to revolutionary moves throughout the world.

Iran is more dangerous to me than N Korea. N Korea is imperialist and we know their agendas. If N Korea gets too out of line, China will just blast them off the map, which may need to happen. Iran is now running with the popular revolutionary mindset taught by chavez and castro and their university influences. Iran wants to 'free the world' from the 'tyranny of the US' and it 'imposing it's will on others'. The socliaist mindset plays right into the hands of the jihad terrorist viewpoint and world view. That produces a global revolutionary mindset and is much more dangerous than N Korea solo.

If people want to prosper, they have to put their heads together, work hard, and figure out how to do it. Blaming others just produces wars and death and also results in more poverty, and a setup to blame the next guy in line when faced with poverty again after all their fighting, because they still will not have learned to prosper, or have developed the mindset or disciplines nescessary to do so.
Everyone keeps talking about ww3, I hope to God we can avoid it. The reality is the weapons nowadays would kill us all and leave the whole world in uninhabitable ruins in a matter of months. China has always been the sleeping giant. They are dependent on US retails, so they want US to prosper and it's population to grow. I would look for China to be an ally with the US in any major war. I would also look for Japan to do the same. As for Iran and N Korea, who the hell needs them??? I mean really, they better learn to just shut the hell up and stop making weapons. I am not racially against any of them, but their leaders are leading them into a delusion and a bad end for everyone.

I personally love S Koreans. Very respectful, nice, and family oriented people. My best friend in my childhood was from there. He was a political refugee with his family. They are also strong US allies, and good people to boot. N Korea in some ways is almost the flip opposite. They shoot their own starving children in the streets like animals. So I say, let China give 'em a wedgie or two. If they need some shock and awe so they stop murdering their own children, then so be it. Lock and load, rock and roll.

I know the Japanese see the inhumane conditions many Chinese suffer from. They are well aware of the reasons for it too. One more reason for us all to lean more towards democracy and capitalism and smart diplomacy rather than state owned or controlled anything. President Chavez, this week, ordered the military takeover of all privately owned oil fields and refineries in Venezuela. He tells his people the poverty is due to the US.

Reality, he has already been getting 30% of the profits of all private oil there, now he wants those companies to stay to run the places and turn them into his peasants, taking 80% of the profits and promising to help the poor with it. Realilty, he is a dictator and if he really cared about the poor the 30% would have given them all an upper middle class living. 80% will also not be enough for his greedy power hungry heart, and the only thing left will be war and hostile takeovers of other countries. I think he will link up with Iran and possibly N Korea and try to start ww3.

My opinion, a sniper bullet could save us, literally, from a world full of death and trouble. But, first we need to let him cause the changes in technology and energy the world needs. He controls the oil prices, and provides 30% of all the oil the US uses, and over 1/3 of the whole world's supply. He taxes them 30% now, and has just upped it to 80%, so a small country is getting a huge porion of the oil wealth and his people still live like peasants, and think the US is the problem due to his media brainwashing. Any reporters in Venezuela that say anything against him on tv are shot or jailed that same week. Truth is, he has been amassing black market weapons with the UN's help for decades.

Most folks do not know all of that. They think middle east is the only large oil source. Also, the largest oil reserves ever found were discovered a few years back in the Gulf of Mexico and should have dropped ouil prices but nothing happened??? Very fishy. They and Alaska have yet to be tapped at all. If you want to be rich, start shorting oil commodities just when those reserves get tapped. The oil price will plummet due to it and new techonology being released. That will help the US do what it needs to deprive Chavez of the money he needs to start ww3, which is his ultimate goal, like Hitler, to reform the world with his version of 'good'. By the way, once Chavez is gone, I would look for high end koi keeping to take off in that oil rich place because the wealth will get distributed to many many people.
I wonder how many koi lovers think about those things while enjoying their ponds. We have world peace for the most part now. I hope we can all work together to keep it that way.

I would like to see Japanese business men strengthen their global and financial position by putting factories here in a US territory. Best spot in the world for them to compete with China from. I just hope they do not do it by hooking up with the socialist faction here and set themselves up for resistance form the feds.