Dragon Pump Testing Results

[woodyaht]

I'll add a bit more,


This is a consumer product as I see it, not a industrial product. A dishwasher is a consumer product as well. You go to Lowes and purchase a Maytag dishwasher, and 2 months later it fails, you open up your instruction packet and look at the warranty info, and it gives you a service number to call which is either a factory authorized Maytag service center, or the Maytag "hot line". You don't call Lowes, unless you purchased the "extended" warranty, which Lim does not offer in this case.

If I was to purchase a Lim pump and 2 months after it fails, I would open up the instruction packet and see what it says to do while the pump is under warranty. Here's what Lims Warranty claims in the flesh:

Limited Warranty

WAVE warrants its Dragon Series pumps to be free of defects in material and/or workmanship at the time of purchase for a period of one year. Prior to packaging, all WAVE Pumps have been tested at 115v and 60 Hz for approximately 15 minutes to ensure good quality control. In the event this product malfunctions within one year from the date of purchase, the sole obligation of WAVE Pumps will be to repair or replace the product. To qualify for two years of warranty you must return the warranty paper, and a copy of the receipt within 10 days, with the date of purchase and the name of company that you purchased the pump from.

THIS LIMITED WARRANTY IS SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING

CONDITIONS AND EXCLUSIONS:

..1.WAVE Pumps must perform all warranty repairs. Purchaser must retain the purchase receipt and present it with the original copy of this certification as proof of ownership and entitlement to warranty repairs. Unauthorized repairs will not be compensated by WAVE Pumps and are not the responsibility of the company. If such repairs damage the product, such damage is not redeemable under this warranty. ..2.Problems or damage resulting from failure to comply with instructions in the owner's manual, improper plumbing and positioning, flooding, corrosion or salt build up, incompatibility with fluid chemistry and running unit dry are not covered under this warranty. Malfunction for any other reason-including but not limited to misuse, negligence, accident, tampering with parts, incorrect wiring, or improper installation- will not be redeemed under this warranty. ..3.If the label, on the pump, has been tampered with or damaged, then the warranty will be void. Likewise, if the pump has been opened, the warranty will be void as well. ..4.

Due to the different chemicals, temperature, conditions of the water, etc. that are used and that may affect the condition of the seal, WAVE Pumps seals are only limited to a 10 day guarantee.

..5.Purchaser shall bear all shipping, packing, and insurance costs and all other costs, excluding parts and labor necessary to effectuate repairs under this warranty...6.Periodic check-ups are not covered by this warranty. ..7.This is the sole and exclusive manufacturer's warranty. Any and all implied warranties, including any warranties of merchantability and fitness for particular purpose, shall have no greater duration than the duration period of the express written warranty applicable to this product, and shall terminate automatically upon the expiration of such duration period. Some states do not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty lasts, so the above limitation may not apply to you. No action shall be brought for breach of any express warranty subsequent to the expiration of this express written warranty. Except as is otherwise provided by applicable law, no action on a warranty implied at law, shall be commenced more than one year following the date of purchase. ..8.Incidental and consequential damages (specifically including, but not limited to, damages for loss of profits or damages relating to down time of people or equipment) caused by malfunction, defect, or otherwise, and with respect to breach of any express or implied warranty, are not the responsibility of W. Lim Corporation, and to the extent permitted by law, are hereby excluded both for property damage and, to the extent not prohibited by applicable law, for personal injury damage. Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you. ..9.The provisions of this warranty are sever-able and if any provision shall be deemed invalid, the remaining provisions shall remain in full force and effect. 10.Rights under this warranty are not assigned without the express prior consent in writing by WAVE Pumps. Regardless of the terms of any consent in writing, the assignees shall have no greater rights than his assignor had against WAVE Pumps. Any purported assignment without the consent of WAVE Pumps shall be null and void. 11.This contract shall be governed by and in accordance with the laws of the state of California. 12.This limited warranty is incorporated by reference into the contract of purchase for the products supplied by WAVE Pumps to purchase under said contract.





Pretty cut and dry to me.........................

[junglegeorge12]

You still kind of missed the point scv, a responsible dealer would have taken care of it same day, and provided Lim with test results from the proper test he did on his own and the findings presented in an irrefutable way.

As for Steve, in one of his posts early on this thread he stated that it was his opinion that 'all sides had some culpability'. By that he meant Lim, Tom, and Waterway. He in no way exhonorated Lim as you suggest.

As well, Lim has obviously already made some changes in the way he will handle this stuff in the future. Hopefully Waterway will too. I have yet to see Tom admit his fault at all. In fact, the most common reason for a new gasket failure is the installer does not close the lid carefully and pinches and ruins the shape of the gasket and the lid. Now there is some food for thought. That same action could also have bent the lid just enough so it would no longer seal right even with a new gasket. That's right, even with the dip in the housing, it may well be working now if that had not happened, if it happened.

Watching the forums for a while, Steve is friends with both Lim and Tom and was trying to make peace, the only one who has not admitted his part of irresponsiblity is Tom so far. Neither you nor Steve did anything wrong. You are now doing something wrong by repeating tom's lines to try to villianize Steve, again shifting the focus of anger away from Tom to another person who acutally HELPED him and you! Incredible!!!! How Tom amanges to sshift your anger from him by insinuating thigns about everyone else under creation is incredible. Go kick the guy who needs it instead of slamming steve. Then you will fell better.

I bet Tom was the kid that broke the window and ate the whole cookie jar and blamed the sibling who helped him cover it up, and his parents and friends bought his lies. Kind of like the guy who seduces his friend's wife and then blames his friend by accusing him of being 'insensitive'.

You owe Steve an apology for accusing him of wrongdoing and wrongly judging his motives and actions. His report was accurate to a tee and not biased at all. I did not read it and think, 'Lim is perfect'. I read it and thought, 'Lim doens not trust this dealer's opinion and assumed it was piping too quickly. I can see why he would nmot trust this dealer's opinion too.'

Steve left out the part about whether or not there were any scuff marks or other signs of abuse on the gasket, or indications of foul play in the other things you guys have produced. If he were trying to do what you accused he would have certainly brought things like that out by now. I can look at the photos and see certain things I won't mention as it will just cause another fight.

If you don't apologize to Steve for assassinating his name on here after he helped you, I may well mention them for him, free of charge as his services to you were..

[Brad Koikichi]

To summarize all of this SCV had a bad pump, Bashes William Lim . Now that Pump has been replaced with a larger pump a 1/3 hp than the one he was sold a 1/4 hp do to a misrepresentation of size on SCV's part (Clever ). Steve being the Gracious person he is offers to help determine the problem. SCV is reluctant to send pump in the beginning but finally sends Steve the pump for a Un Biased opinion of the pump's fault's.

Pump is found to have a defective wet end . Steve announces his findings in detail as to his test methods. SCV Still bashes William Lim. Alot of He said She said from SCV. At best a possible installation fault as junglegeorge stated . As the pump would not show simptoms as described by SCV in the previous posts during the testing at W Lim's. Steve has been chastized for his efforts in resolving this and possibilities as to why it was not found faulty at W Lim's.

SCV still bashes W Lim and adds Steve to the bashing list . I will probably be next ! But I don't give a Rats Behind !

Yet SCV has not posted an apology for telling W Lim that the pump was a 1/4 hp Dragon not 1/3 hp Dragon that he received as the replacement and is still bashing.

Steve Thanks for finding the defect thru your efforts this type of defect can be found in the Future .

For The Love of God SCV Let the Horse Die !!!

[luke frisbee]

brad,
if you want the dead horse to quit being beaten you have to quite swinging a baseball bat too...
i totally see SCV as the victim here. It was TWO dang years before he got a pump that wasn't a POS. And to trump up the fact that he got a more powerful?expensive pump....let's look at how much money you are talking ab out....hmmmmm 20 bucks? Oh yeah that's a big deal....have Lim tell you that you are the problem not his pump for 2 years and see how you feel about what was done to you.
You buy a pump. The Pump should work. Who ever this guy that instaled it is, He did alot more than he should have had to....because of Lim's piss poor customer service and Lim's attitude towards alot of people that have a difference opinion or question mr lim.

SCV acted with great restraint for an extended period of time. He was mistreated by LIM, as was the installer. None of us should take offense that they brought this out in the open. It was either that or bite the bullet and let lim have his way.
MANY Hobbyists will be unknowingly thankful that this occurred, as they will not have to be unprofessional dealt wiht when they have a problem with a Lim Product...
And ya know what...i expect lim's sales to eventually improve if this new philosophy of customer service is incorporated for awhile.

But having said the above, SCV could have been a bit more understanding that the Child Squire didn't open a can of Whoop-azz on Wm. Lim...he has used Lim's products and had an Opinion of Lim that was entrenched....SCV only dealt with Lim one time so he has nothing but disdain for him. Yet the reverse and deeper entrenched is Childers' opinion of Lim.
Childers rightfully sees it as a rare error....and justly so from his experience.

The best thing is that Lim Corp has a better way to address questions concerning the issues so often confronted when having to deal with the public.

[SCVkoiboy]

Brad, the discussion about the size of the pump was with Steve, not William and I offered to return it. What more do you want. If it makes you happy, "I am sorry I told Steve the pump was 1/3 instead of 1/4 hp." It was an honest mistake and I would be glad to rectify that issue as I stated before.

JG, I am not sure what your issues are with Tom, nor do I care. I would welcome any comments you have about the pump and any misuse you see on my part. It will only help me to not do the same to my current two pumps. I just ask that you provide accurate info.

I echo Luke's statement. I have a reason to beat the horse and respond to your comments as I am involved in this issue. What is your excuse for beating the horse?

[junglegeorge12]

Oh no I double posted.

[junglegeorge12]

SCV- I do not blame you for taking the issue public to get it resolved, left in your shoes I would have done the same, but probably in front of the dealer's store or home until he handed me a new pump. It is not dead horses getting beaten, but people's professional reputations. Big difference. I got tired of watching the wrong guys getting villianized, simple. You still owe Steve an apology. I can understand your feelings towards Lim, but the comments about Steve are out of order completely. I also feel at least half the anger you feel at Lim should be going at Tom. I think you are misdirecting anger and blame for the problems completely away from Tom, where it belongs, onto others, perhaps whoever Tom entices you to??? Tom did not NOT do everything he could, because he did not give you a new pump and deal with Lim himself. I find it amazing you would suggest Steve did something wrong in integrity but be totally unable to see the obvious lack of integrity in your dealer/installer in this. I have no personal beef with Tom. I am seeing a pattern of behaviour that is clear and repeated though.

If you do not want Tom maligned, then I suggest you stop defracting attention to others by maligning them without due cause. Steve did nothing but try to help two buddies, Lim and Tom, work out a problem, and you got helped in the process. Steve has tried hard not to choose sides and to help out but you guys are making that harder and harder from my perspective.

I never suggested you intentionally gave the wrong pump size, an honest mistake a professional dealer should have rectified before it happened. Nevertheless an honest mistake. As was Lim's partial diagnosis of the problem and assumptions about the install, truth is he jumped to a conclusion about Tom that may not be completely inaacurate.

As I stated to those who wrongly maligned you earlier in this thread, Steve also deserves an apology from you at this point. He was an innocent and very helpful 3rd party. I do understand Tom seems to have trained you to think a certain way about this whole thing, mainly because he did not want to give you a new pump until he got one from Lim first. I would just like you to see that Steve was not biased or wrong in anything he wrote and was probably hurt by the comments you made after he did you a favor, adn apologize to him. If I was him I would give you your old pump back, right on the top of the head. Then we could really deform that wet end. Just kidding. Dissing Steve publicly after he did you a favor is not too cool or nice OR fair. I understand you had two years of frustration built up, but venting it on Steve after he did you a favor was uncool.

As for the lid, just make sure the gasket is snugly in place before closing the lid every time. Closing it with one side of it out of the impression it was made to rest in will deform it and possibly warp the lid. It may be hard to keep it in place with water gushing out, so vaseline or grease may help it stay in place long enough.

[Rich L]

Well put Luke. That's my experience too.

I have had to deal often with people who had a complaint and had tried every route possible to get the issue resolved. When I came on the scene I would be dealing with such frustration that it took a while to clear the pent-up emotion and reach the underlying issue and the situation that created it.

I can readilly see SVC behaving aggressively and even abusive. It's called venting.

I sell components now and bend over backwards to assure a customer is satisfied, no matter what.

[SCVkoiboy]

Whatever your issues are with Tom, JG, is none of my business. Tom is a big boy and can fight his own battles. You clearly have issue with him, but that is between you and him.

As for Steve, I think I have made my point. We can agree to disagree about his motives. He has apparently taken the high road (unlike the rest of us) so I will refrain from further comments about him unless in response to a post by him.

As for the lid, Steve (according to his inspection of my pump and lid) and I found nothing wrong with the lid or gasket. I never had a problem with the o-ring slipping out of it's position or getting pinched. I used an o-ring/gasket lubricant to try to create a better seal and it worked for a short period of time (until the air forced through the lube). I used the lube because I was told that vaseline was not good to use on the o-rings. Kinda like Armorall on dashboards: it causes the material to break down. Anyone have any comments on the use of vaseline? Is it bad for o-rings?

[woodyaht]

Quote: Originally Posted by SCVkoiboy Anyone have any comments on the use of vaseline? Is it bad for o-rings?

It's a petroleum product so it's not that great. The best lube for o-rings is silicone gel ( not silicone sealant in the tube ) the same gel used in Breast implants, it doesn't dry. It's hard to find but the best stuff for o-rings. The other product that is similar and easier to find is Dielectric grease, normally used for sealing electrical connections, it is normally silicone gel too as long as it's clear or milky colored.