Koi heads

[jnorth]

Thats great information Dick. Looking through various pics of tosai it is alot easier to see the difference in head length with that system.

[dcny]

Quote: Originally Posted by dick benbow look at the distance from the eyes to the nose. take that length and apply it to the distance between the eye and the gill cover. if it's about the same as the nose tip, you have and average growth potential if it's greater than and maybe half again as long your chances are good to have an extra large koi, again pond size, number of koi etc (environmental issues) will play a part hopes this helps

Thanks Dick!

That was a pearl for beginners such as myself. You just can't find this type of info in a book.

-Dan

[James P]

I agree with Dick, in that koi head shapes are both genetic and environmental. But fundamentally there are some classic head shapes and also some variations. Usually this is due to one of four things:

1) the location of the eye and how deep set or elevated the eye socket is

2) The shape and location of the mouth. A low set mouth will cause the nose to look 'dolphen like' or square or long and pointy. A large mouth will tend to cause the nose to have a nice curve to it.

3) the shape of the head on the dorsal plain. A koi can have a flat head, a small head, a 'tight' head, an apple head, a short head and nose etc.

4) the size and shape of the gill plate. A koi can have very long gill plates, shot gill plates, over sized gill plates. Many of these traits boarder on deformities but some are ligitimate head shapes from food fish stock, nishikigoi stock and over breed stock.

Head shapes can also be seen in developmental shapes that are age appropriate. Males and young koi often have pointed noses. But as the young age, a females mouth and nose will change. There are some definite tips here as to which koi to buy and which to stay away from.
Old koi kept in small garden ponds almost always age with head deformities. The apple head on platnium, yamabuki, kujaku and showa are classic examples of what conditions do to prematurely age koi bone structure.
Hard water or water with excessive alkalinity will also effect the look of the koi's head in the areas of luster and tarnish. Most metallic fish and many gosanke will age very badly in hard water with high alkalinity and the head is most often an area that shows this effect.

[MikeM]

In the last few years, I have become attracted to koi which have a wide, nearly flat space between the eyes. This shape seems to create a more expressive face. I'm always a sucker for koi with a pretty face. The chubby cheeks look so liked in the show tank in the '80s and early '90s does not appeal to me. The emphasis on length, and breeding back to magoi-based lines to get it, seems to have changed the head shapes seen on top show koi compared to years ago. The bone structure has an angularity to it that is quite different than the softer, rounder appearance of earlier show lines. .... although sometimes I wonder if it is just a matter of needing to get the magoi-based fish to an older age for the roundness to appear. (I do not get to see photos of many 20 year-old magoi-based Gosanke!)

[Surfhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by dick benbow look at the distance from the eyes to the nose. take that length and apply it to the distance between the eye and the gill cover. if it's about the same as the nose tip, you have and average growth potential if it's greater than and maybe half again as long your chances are good to have an extra large koi, again pond size, number of koi etc (environmental issues) will play a part hopes this helps

where on the gill plate am I measuring to? The front where it starts of the back edge?

[luke frisbee]

Question: Is the "applehead" the same as the "babyface" that I think looks like a defornity but was often noted in Japanese koi magazines as a favored head shape?

[Regenmeneer]

Luke, do you mean Otafuga?

Regenmeneer

[luke frisbee]

"otafuga"......................................... maybe?

[James P]

Hi Luke, the baby face or chubby cheeks are a genetic type. And it gets more pronounced with age. This is part of a genetic head type that is associated with a small mouth usually 'under' a pronounced nose. You get the look of jowles. I think the Japanese in the 80's and 90's not so much loved this look as tolerated it because it was often associated with other wonderful traits of that genetic pool.
For me, a baby face is a broad rounded mouth and a tapered face with white skin and black eyes- another complete different description.
The apple head is often referred to as deformity. It is really an aging head or a head that is deformed from water conditions over many years. Look for it in big yamabuki. It is where the head has actually gotten round like a softball. This is due to the shortening of the structure that supports the mouth and an increase in bone structure of the head itself. It often gives the viewer an impression of a short/small head that is more rounded than 'bullet shaped." Often the shape of the fish's eyes get caught up in this progressive deformity and can be very bulging or stalked on protruding stems from the skull. You don't see this kind of eye deformity at all in the more acceptable baby face/chubby cheeks.