Bakki Shower/Bacteria House vs Conventional Submerged Filtration System.

[junglegeorge12]

I have to disagree with you JR (that should shock him!)

It is not speculation or wishful thinking. Part of our role in the R&D process was to fulfill contracts to test and provide the data that proved that the sensors did what the manufacturers claimed, or did not do it, and to uncover any glitches or serious concerns. We used live field tests in abundance. Let there be no doubt, it is NOT speculation. The security and controls systems the DOD, the Navy, the Secret Service, Lockheed Martin, and many many others with high security needs base their systems on it.


Those ceramics affect the biological and chemical processes around them, or they would not work in the applications they are currently being used for. How can a ceramics sensor detect anything if it is encased in frost, calcifications, or deposits? It has to affect biological and chemical processes to be reliable in water and other extreme applications. Simple. How is that accomlished? By using ceramics that have FIR, IR, ferroelectric, dielectric, and piezo electric properties, depending on the application. Not sure why that is so hard for folks who claim to scientists to grasp???

We were contracted by government agencies checking the ceramics research work to help them decide what or if to purchase. We stood nothing to gain from either positive or negative findings, our next contract was secured only by finding the truth and being accurate with our data and reports.

Fact, the modern IR and FIR emitting sensors did not foul, even in EXTREME conditions over long periods of time. No other sensors we had ever seen were capable of that, as steve can probably attest (his experience on the other thread explains why folks were doing heavy duty research in that area).

Fouling sensors was a bad and costly problem for decades in security and controls applications. It resulted in costly breakdowns, critical systems failures, some of them catastrophic, irritating false alarms, costly processes and plants being shut down unecessarily, alarms which when ignored the one time it was real caused major problems.

Val is right about one thing, all things do emit FIR. The question is how much and at what frequency. That is why to a controls and sensor expert, the numbers on Momotaro's 'hype' were the exact right ones.

As for luke's comments, he has obviously not tried and tested both medias.

I am sorry dtbh, and do want to hijack your thread, but I think those making presumptuous and erroneous comments need to learn about it BEFORE making assertions (even the assertion that nothing is known for sure yet). Plenty is already known about it. In fact, there is so much known about it, the DOD, the Secret Service, the Navy, and others base many of it's security measures on it.

[James P]

classic mis-direction

[hwong]

Here is a pic of a shower system used at Sakai supplied by Narita.

[junglegeorge12]

Not one ounce of misdirection at all there JR, just simple facts and real life experiences dealing with modern ceramics.

Why don't you hand me that list you touted so I can prove you either wrong or right? Let's run the real tests that work. Since the test of it's results in the pond are so positive but still not enough for you.

All I have to do is get the list to folks who make those ceramics and research them to find out it's potential abilities. I would think, if you were actually interested in the truth, you would jump at the chance. It could actually work in your favor. Or perhaps you prefer a fixed test??? These guys have no reason to fix anything, in fact it would behoove them more to let everyone in the DOD and Navy think noone can make such ceramics but them.

If you have some other legitimate concern about the industry and koi keeping, why not pm me with it and I will gladly seriously look at it. I am pro this hobby like you. If not, I do not understand your resistance to discovery. People do not stonewall without motives.

Why not let it be proven or disproven by it's composition? I can already make some assertions for 100% sure just from observations in my shower, but without that list, the others would be speculation. In time I may invite you down here to help with some research and get your thoughts on some other future media ideas, not really even related to BH. I do respect your opinons JR, I do not respect casting black shadows over others while stonewalling.

[butterfly]

I think the discussion of IR and FIR is a bit too much. Biggest source of IR or FIR in the solar system is sun. However, anything that can emit heat produces IR and FIR including animals and humans. Ceramics that absorb heat from sun will emit at IR and FIR in the night. Night vision goggles of DOD or even simple camcorders with IR ability can also detect IR .

Any claim that Bakki ceramics producing IR and FIR is absolutely bogus. Besides, IR and FIR do not have any special properties that would benefit any pond or koi.

I say let's move on!!

[bekko]

Nice patina there on Sakai's BS system. It would fit right in a garden with other postmodern statuary.

-steve hopkins

[PapaBear]

Quote: Originally Posted by bekko Nice patina there on Sakai's BS system. It would fit right in a garden with other postmodern statuary. -steve hopkins

I have a question . When is a Bakki Shower no longer considered a Bakki Shower? If the Bakki Shower principle is so deeply rooted in the special Ceramic Bakki Media doesn't it become just another trickle tower if you fill it with bioballs, JapMats, or lava rock? Both setups use the same shower & degassing mechanisms and as far as I can see there is no functional difference other than media.
Maybe someday a new age koi keeper can fill one with pyramid shaped quartz crystals and transform turds into pristine potable water while raising 48" koi with new colors never seen before.

[junglegeorge12]

You mean radioactive cobalt papabear?

Butterfly, your coments about IR and FIR not afffecting water in ponds is funny. I guess the sun is pointless then.

[junglegeorge12]

In terms of showers Papabear, I think like this. Bakki is a name derived from Bacteria House media. I do not think other showers are bakkis. They are showers, whether they be a lava rock shower or a bioball shower or a tree bark or alfgrog shower. All are showers. Showers of all kind are nice. Only the ones filled with BH are bakkis in my opinion.

Many of you may not believe it, but just over a year ago I was still using a sand filter and was in intense arguements in koichat about the issues of using newer techniques. I did not disbelieve them as some of the weak minded and fearfilled here do, but I did not see a reason to change over when sand here is free. I used to say like butterfly 'nature's way is best'. Now I see that as an ignorant comment.

Everything on earth was derived from nature at some point. Our work as humans is to try to master that nature. This mindset of attributing new age or occultic attributes to some materials and not others is really ridiculous and borders on superstition. So using other medias, no matter their source in the earth, is in no way against nature or 'spiritually bad'. It is like saying 'the rocks in my yard are holy rocks, the ones in your yard are demon rocks'. They are rocks and mud and other things all mushed up and cooked in an oven to produce a ceramic. Simple. To spiritualize it is totally immature and ridiculous.

So, I finally let bil talk me into trying another media (K1 was his fav), I had already deduced it would work, so tried it out just to prove bil right. He was right! It worked quite well and I was happy, but not happy enough to get rid of my trusty barrell of love and sand. I then moved on to try other medias as well. And after experiencing the benefits, would not go back to what I was using. I did not ditch the sand until I used a lava rock shower, and it became murky water that had problems with algae blooms with just lava rock. I put some K1 in and it helped some, but not that much. After switching to BH the murkiness is gone, the algae is gone, and the nitrates stay zeroed out, the first time in ten years of kio keeping I have had that happen. THAT is why I became interested in selling the media. It is NOT a huge money maker for me here. I only have the carribean area and central america, so I am not getting sales by coming on here to post. I defend it because I believe in it and am tired of pseudo scientists pretending to be in the know about such ceramics and FIR and biology, when they are not.

I just posted a link and evidence of FIRs effects on biology. Butterfly then comes back a few hours later and says 'ir and fir do not have any affect on pond water or koi'??? Is she awake??? She brings up heat, the experiment said something very interesting about 'heat'. I will leave it for the astute to catch it. Are you conscious butterfly? I mean, am I talking to my finger???

[bekko]

edit: never mind